#2. Purpose - Alexandra Purpura & Cassandra Galbraith
"Who do I want to become?"
Alex has just joined the team, while Cassie is about to move on. For both of them, it's a moment to think about where their heads are at and where they'd like to go. Darius leads Alex through an exploration of her music career, talking about the effort of thinking things through, what she ultimately wants to achieve and why, and some steps to move forward. Then Cassie reflects on her six month work placement at People and Their Brilliance, what she learned about her work and herself, and what that means going forwards. For you listening, see if you can emulate this practice of reflection. How clear are you on what you are working towards? What does success look like to you? What have you already got that will help you get there?
Listen to full episode :
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This is episode two of What’s Your Work? We recorded a follow up with episode one’s guests, but the recording was too low quality for release - that’s why Darius refers to this as episode three. Interested in hearing more about episode one’s guests? Let us know and we can look at recording a follow up!
The topic of purpose speaks to the very heart of this podcast, in that it forces us to confront the question of “Who am I becoming?” One technique for taking ownership of your future is to create a vision - we wrote a blog about this which you can read here.
The course on connections is called Build A Better Network. It was created by Ollie Barrett OBE and you can enroll here.
Alex worked as a Recruitment Administrator for People and Their Brilliance and is now continuing to work part time in recruitment whilst pursuing her career in music. You can connect with her on LinkedIn @Alexandra Purpura.
Cassie previously worked as a Digital Marketing Specialist for People and their Brilliance, she now works as a Marketing Assistant at the University of Brighton. You can connect with her on LinkedIn @Cassandra Galbraith.
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Darius Norell: Okay, welcome to episode three, podcast number three of our sort of inquiries, journeys into the world of work. I had a thought for a tentative title for this sort of podcast series, which you might, which was, what's your work? So trying to capture this idea of trying to find something that's both kind of fulfilling and meaningful, and that really kind of lights you up? And sort of a play on words, which is, what's your work, what are you needing to work on, figure out about yourself how you're showing up, that can also make a difference. So once again, if you're joining us for the first time, my name is Darius, hosting this show on behalf of People and Their Brilliance. Would you like to both introduce yourselves briefly, thank you for being on here.
Alexandra Purpura: I'm Alex. I'm 23. I've just finished university and I'm working for People and Their Brilliance.
Darius: Thank you.
Cassandra Galbraith: My name is Cassie. I'm 24. And I just finished working at People and Their Brilliance. Doing digital marketing.
Darius: Yeah, lovely.It's interesting to me, every time I ask people this, they tell them, they say their age. And I'm curious, does that feel important? Or does that-
Cassie: I mean, I just did, because when I heard the other podcast.
Darius: It's interesting. Because for me, it's not there at all as a so I mean, like, so what? Maybe Maybe it's helpful, I don't maybe so if you're listening it might, you know, it's kind of contextually. And we're recording this at the time of the kickstart scheme, which again, for those who don't know, is a six month program to help people at risk of long term unemployment, get a foot on the ladder, versus being stuck at home post pandemic, etc, etc. So, both of you have come through that Alex, you're at the beginning of relatively at the beginning. And Cassie, you've just
Cassie: Yep.
Darius: So there's a lot of different places we could go to talk about. One question I'm coming with is kind of what is there to learn about the experience? You know, you're both coming to us. You're the beginning. Alex, you're at the end, Cassie. I was thinking that could be an interesting topic for conversation to kind of reflections on Okay, well, what do I learn? Where am I now compared to where I want to be? How do I make the most of it? So that could be one area. Anything that either of you are coming with as a Oh, I'd be interested to explore this one wondering about that, in relation to this conversation about the world of work.
Cassie: I don't know. Maybe like preparing for the scheme ending and because obviously, it's six months for most people and just help around that. And going back into the job hunt again, for me, because I went through it again.
Darius: So maybe that's an area to explore. And do you have a question? Or you just think you that could be interesting?
Cassie: Yeah, not not even say a question just like an area for me.
Darius: So what is it for you that would be interesting to explore about it?
Cassie: Just what you've learned from the scheme in terms of applying that to then going back into the world.
Darius: Right, so just doing some more reflection on
Cassie: Yeah.
Darius: And you know, that I love that you use the first person, like I said, rather than what you've learned, right? What I've learned, yeah, can you say it again with that?
Cassie: Oh, I can't even remember I said now! On what I have learned during my scheme, yeah.
Darius: Yeah. And what you're gonna take back out to the world.
Cassie: Yeah.
Darius: Yeah, Alex anything that's bubbling up for you?
Alex: Um, not off the top of my head at the moment. I think the whole idea of, you know, what Cassie said with moving on from this placement, like is only six months and already done a month, the months gone quite quickly. So sort of being prepared for that understanding maybe how Cassie has dealt with it and how I like will sort of plan for I guess, I know it's not that far away. But there's still quite a lot to do here. So yeah, yeah.
Darius: Well, let's use that as a jumping off point. It seems like both of you are interested in that. When is the right time to start thinking about oh, what's gonna happen you know, after this eneds? That can be applied to anyone like in any job. They come into a job or maybe it's a six month contract or whatever it is, when would be the right time to start thinking about it "OK, so what's gonna happen at the end?"
Cassie: I mean, for me, because I've been job hunting for about seven months, when I finally got the job here at the beginning, I didn't think about it. So I was just like, I can relax for a while. And then my as the weeks and months went on, like the realization that I probably need to start thinking about this. So for me, I think, four or five months in, but even then, you know, I mean, not to pressure you, but even then, like, maybe I should have thought of that even earlier. But, you know, I think it's really important to make the most of six months because yeah, they go by really quickly. So, yeah.
Alex: I think hearing that - not stresses me out, but I think I don't know what I want to do still. And I don't know, if you want to share this, but how you worked in digital marketing here, and now you've moved on to like another like digital marketing role, to sort of have like that niche to kind of go into like, post, but like, with me, I work in recruiting, and I don't think recruiting for me is gonna be like a long term kind of goal. And so, job searching for something that I don't even know what I want to go into, it kind of adds this additional pressure, probably, like, you know, about like my state of self, and all that kind of stuff, and what my values are and where I want to go in the future. And six months isn't a lot of time to make that decision. And people make those decisions 20 years later, after they've started working, and they realize, Oh, I'm completely wrong career. So I think that just comes along with Yeah, the pressure. Really not sure. Yeah, very lost.
Darius: So I'm reminded of one of the things you said before we came into this waiting to come into the room and kind of record this was "I don't know what we're going to talk about".
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: And then, for me, it seems like we've hit on something which is kind of absolutely foundational, which is that would be useful to talk about, and is really relevant to this question, which is, okay, well, what am I doing? And the reason that I think a lot of people would be saying, well, what are we going to talk about? And then have something which I think is like, really huge. That's right there to talk about, but not really think of it is. It's difficult to think about?
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: So we kind of put it out of our heads, don't engage with it. So when I say, oh, when's the right time? And Cassie you're like, well, maybe four or five months in? And you're thinking, Oh, maybe sooner? For me, it's kind of already like now.
Alex: Yeah
Darius: I mean, really, before you started your placement.
Cassie: Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I meant more like applying to jobs. But yeah, I think the mindset I should have taken on sooner. Definitely.
Darius: And so and so thinking about it and thinking about, it doesn't mean having an answer necessarily. Yeah. Just that really inquiring into what am I trying to do here? Where am I trying to go? And the question, a version of the question, which I most like of that is, who do I want to become? What kind of person do I want to become? And then what are the decisions that I need to take and make that are going to support me on that pathway? Because without clarity of that answer of who do I want to become, it does become incredibly stressful and very difficult. And you go around in circles and get lost and sort of go, "Well, I don't know, like, I could do this, or I could do that." And nothing seems any particularly better than anything else. Or it's difficult to know, is that going to help me or not. So unless you have some sense of where you want to end up, which obviously can be changed and evolved, and all the rest of it, then all the rest becomes very, very difficult. And so, I guess the first marker would be to really encourage you to do that work first of where am I trying to head here? Before then trying to make a decision about okay, so shall I go left or right or straight on? Does that does that make sense? Can you see that's quite a different way maybe of thinking about it?
Alex: Yeah. It's like not making those decisions without like, without having thought about it, basically.
Darius: Yeah.
Alex: I think a lot of us are sort of like programmed - or not programmed, but like we think we have to make a decision there and then it needs to be done otherwise something bad will happen and or your yeah. I think there's like levels to it as well because it depends on like your security and where you are the support you have from like family if you have to get a job to get a job to survive pay rent, you know pay for like that's that adds that pressure of not having time to think about what you actually want to do in life. I'm obviously not in that position. So much like I don't have a family or anything like that to like provide for but it's still - thinking takes a lot of energy. I've realized over the last couple years like actually sitting down and not just like Like being very passive with everything is easy like actually thinking and sitting down and taking that time regardless, like, regardless of whether it's looking for work or like self improvement, or you know, making yourself get out of bed every single day and do something that's tough. And I didn't realize how hard it was and how much like, how exhausting it can get sometimes, especially if you're... yeah, yeah.
Darius: Yeah, very, very beautifully said. And yeah, it takes effort. And in some sense we're going against the current, right, there's kind of a, like it just get swept along, go with the flow in some version of that. Or I can be a bit more deliberate. And immediately then I meet different versions of resistance rather, internally and myself, like, I don't want, to I'm bored and tired or whatever, or resistance outside, right, depending on who you've got surrounding you with, like, "Well, why are you thinking about that? And why are you doing this? Why are you doing that?" So yeah, that's very nicely put.
Cassie: Yeah, I think, especially during lockdown, a lot of time, like before I got the role here. Just having all that time to think, a bit too much time. But I think sometimes for me, I've what I've really learn from just the whole experience, sometimes you have to take a step back to go forward. You know, I was living in Manchester, but I had to suddenly move home, back with my parents. And I just felt really like what am I doing? You know, I was suddenly unemployed living at home again, after uni. And it's just not where I saw myself. And that was like, you know, quite a hard year. But now I can, I feel like I've learned a lot from that struggle, as cheesy as it sounds. But I think, yeah, I'm happy with where I am now. But even now, even though I've got this new role, and I still can relate to what you're saying that I don't always know, who I want to be and what direction I'm going in, I still still have that feeling, even though I've got a new role.
Darius: So my challenge is, I think a lot of people feel that. Yeah, right. Some version of that either really strongly or kind of they started thinking, Oh, I don't know, it's my challenge is this - and, you know, as always push back, right? - which is, so you say, "Oh, I'm doing recruitment" - I can't remember exact words - "I don't see myself doing this long term", or "I'm not sure recruitment's for me", some version of that. So my pushback is, well, how do you know, if you don't have a clear idea of who you want to become? How can you say, well, that's not that's not it?
Alex: I think, personally, it's because in an ideal world, and Harry actually asked me this question, when we first had our orientation. And he asked, "Oh, what do you want to do with your life?" And I was like, "Oh, something science, probably." And he's like, "Yeah, but what's your passion? What's your, you know, the thing that if you could do anything, and it wouldn't matter about money, or rent or whatever", and I was like, "Oh, well, making music". But in this kind of day, and age, relying on a creative subjects is risky, is difficult. It's mentally taxing. And so my passion lies there. And I know that it will always be like that. I know, it's never changed. So when I say that, like recruiting isn't for me, even though I don't really know where I'm going, I don't know where I'm going. Because I feel like the avenue that I want to take is like, completely locked. It's like it's out of my reach. Even though I haven't been doing as much as I could have. It's that fear of failing, basically, at the thing that is your passion, which is like a mat and it just puts a massive mental block on that. And then it's just like, oh, well, I don't know where I'm going with my life. Because the one thing I want to do, I'm scared of messing it up, or not succeeding in it. And like, success looks different for everyone. Like I'm not expecting to become like Adele. But like having people be like, Oh my gosh, your music, you know, spoke to me. I really enjoyed it. Like, as simple as that. I don't really but then. Yeah. So I know where I want to be in an ideal world. But reality is quite different to that. But maybe it isn't. I don't know.
Darius: So you up for exploring that?
Alex: Yeah. That's why I took this role. Basically, that's what I that's what made me like attracted to the kickstart scheme in the first place is the ability for flexibility. So you know, you're only working 25 hours a week, it gives me a chance to work on my music at home and also work on other stuff that can help me with my like, more like career, like of going into maybe a science field. I'm interested in writing scientific communication. So like I say, I do have - I do know what I want to do, which is probably a bit different from when we started. It's just I don't know how to get there as well. I think. I think people have forgotten that. A lot of people need that guidance. And it's not bad to ask for help and ask for that support and guidance. I feel like sometimes I don't know as young people. We sort of just like, Oh, well, you know, pull up from your bootstraps and just get to work. And you can do it. And you're sort of all out by yourself. And I think that's far from the truth. I think we've kind of lost that ability to support each other and people's goals and the things that they want to do. And yeah. Very, very separate from each other. Yeah.
Darius: So can I ask you about your music?
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: So are you working on your music?
Alex: Yeah, I've been working with a mate of mine, we've been kind of like sending back stuff back and forward. At the moment, it's a bit slow, because I've just been quite busy outside of work, but -
Darius: Doing what?
Alex: Kind of just like, enjoying my life a little bit, I have, like, money, I have like an income, which is really nice, like work over uni, you know, like, I wasn't in the position to be able to manage University and work at the same time. So just sort of seeing friends that I haven't seen in years, you know, and, but alongside that, also, just like, re getting back into, like, my hobbies, my passion, so like reading a lot more cooking a lot more really taking like time for myself, music still sometimes feels like work. Sometimes I really do have to work for it. And other times I can like, just get like a pang of inspiration. And I'll be there for like four or five hours, just straight, just. Yeah. So but I've got like, tons of songs, like they're all written. They're all there. It's just - and I'm releasing them. And I'm getting good feedback on like SoundCloud, and stuff. So people like to hear my music, and they're giving me like, oh, like, oh, you could do this with the drums instead, you know, like actually giving you like positive constructive feedback, as well as just being like, it was really good, really liked that song, you should release it on Spotify. I just don't know. Just don't know where to go. This is the thing. I'm still writing music in my bedroom, which I was doing, like 10 years ago. I feel like I'm still kind of like, stuck. I don't know which steps to take forward. Now. I know, the logical steps would be like, go and do an open mic or send out demos to like, people putting on?
Darius: Yeah, so I'm interrupting because it feels like you've got yourself in a bit of a tangle. That's what I'm hearing. And that may or may not be accurate. So let's let's go into it. And I want to get your view in a second Cassie as well. So you're doing a whole bunch of stuff.
Alex: Yep.
Darius: You're recording, you're releasing your work, you're getting some reaction to it. And you're also with this feeling of like, oh, there's something missing is that I'm supposed to do something else. I'm not feeling fulfilled in that.
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: Is that right?
Alex: Yeah. I think. Because I, I don't know. I don't know why I'm not feeling fulfilled with where I am at the moment. I guess.
Darius: So this is, I mean, this is, you know, I'm gonna ask you a personal question. Because you started with saying, I don’t want to become Adele. And yet, I'm picking up maybe you do. Right, because - sorry, go on.
Alex: I personally think that level of fame is just, I don't think I'd be able to handle it.
Darius: You may not, but there may be part of you that wants it or thinks that's what you're supposed to be like, if my songs running good, then I would become Adele.
Alex: Yeah. But I also understand a lot of it is like luck. And a lot of it is knowing the right people having those connections, having the financial support. You know, I think I just see all of the blocks.
Darius: Great - that's very different from saying I don't want to be so like, I don't know how I would become I don't think I can become
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: From acknowledging yeah, there's part of me. That would like to be, or maybe it's a deep part of me, like that's what success looks like or feeling fulfilled. Look.
Alex: Yeah. Yeah, you're probably right.
Darius: I don't know. I mean, this is a question for you. And this is just to own the parts of you which are there because then you can be with them in a different way and say, Okay, how does is that going to serve me? Like no, actually, I don't want that level of, you know, whatever it is. But yeah, until you really acknowledged what's there. It's very difficult to then work with it. So how would you describe you know, because you came alive when you start talking about music like it's your number sounds like your number one thing you're really clear on it? Yeah, deep part of you. Like if I could do anything it would be that what I noticed as you were talking about it, you were you were you went straight to I want to hear what other people think of my music.
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: And you're saying yes, very quickly. And I think that's an interesting place to create from. Versus this is what's inside me that I that I'm going to create whether anyone listens to it or not, but anyone thinks it's any good. And this is what I've got to offer the world.
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: Can you see how those are different?
Alex: Yeah, I do. I think the whole wanting other people to relate to my music or to know what they know how they feel, is probably it probably comes from you know, like, I grew up as a child, I didn't have a lot of young people around me I didn't like, it was like, it was a lonely time. And like having people around, were my one passion. And the one thing I can talk about a lot, and I feel comfortable talking about is music for other people to come and like, create, like a little community. It's like, it's really important. Like, I think that's why I've always viewed it as that instead of like, doing it for my self, I guess, and just taking like, the joy, because if I just did it for myself, then I wouldn't be searching for this. What's important about the community because it felt like something I just always like, like, I don't know, having a group of like minded people that you can relate to and converse with. And I guess it comes with like a bit of validation, as well. Like, having peers validate you, and that feels good. That feels satisfying, people believing in your artistic ability as well. I had great support growing up for my music, my parents, like, always pushed me to, you know, take up an instrument saying they were always like, super supportive with that stuff. And it was great. And all my friends were like, Oh my God, you're incredible, but I never did anything with it. You know? I know that sounds - I just felt like I didn't do anything with it. Were like I see like 20 year olds on on Vine. Not Vine, oh my gosh. Like 20 year olds on Tik Tok getting really famous, like millions of views on these videos, posting songs. And I'm just like, part of me is like, Why? Why am I not doing great? So there is something about it.
Darius: I'm going to come back to “I don't want to be Adele”. And yet, it's like, oh, actually, if I could be getting millions of views on my music and songs, and I'm not.
Alex: Then that feels like I'm coming across as quite full of myself.
Darius: It doesn't to me.
Cassie: Nor to me, no.
Darius: Go on Cassie, because you say to say some more? What are you really picking up?
Cassie: We've spoken about music before we actually have quite a similar music taste. And I think a big part of maybe you want people to feel like connected in a group surrounding your music is because you're in those groups yourself.
Alex: Yeah. Yeah.
Cassie: Cuz even when we were talking about Phoebe Bridges, we were having like little fangirl moments, you know, saying like that music helps you as a lot. So maybe, yeah, I think it's esteem, but also because I think it's a nice way of showing that you care. But you'd like to help people relate to your lyrics and be like, Oh, I've been through that. I can relate to that. And I think that's a really nice side of music that is important to me as well. And yeah, I mean, I get the whole not wanting to be Adele, but I do actually think you can still be successful in it and your own way. And even if it is just a hobby. But yeah, I think you definitely should try it on tick tock, if you want for YouTube and doing a few. Yeah, you know, go for it.
Alex: YouTube has been something I did a long time ago for a good few years.
Cassie: But I do get how hard it is so much competition and other people doing the same thing. But yeah, it's the same for them as well. Exactly. Yeah.
Darius: So I've got two thoughts. And then what so kind of like, what's the point of talking about this stuff? Right? It's to get some clarity, maybe some insight in terms of oh, so what actually is really important to me. And your question, which you did have, which was all I don't know what to do next. Yeah. So I'd love to play that two things are one thing you said. And then another thought I've had. So how can you build that community?
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: Right. Because that aspect for you is important. And, and thinking really about who's in the community because in some big sounds like oh, if I had if I was surrounded by some, you said peers, right for which for me would mean fellow musicians and creatives and filmmakers, so I don't know if it's that or there's a close group of fans who are into your music or whoever it is. How can you create that for yourself? That might go a long way, even though it's not millions go a long way to kind of having that validation and support and creative sort of evolution.
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: Does that not ask you to answer the question? Because as a kind of step of like, oh, yeah, if I created that, that would feel good does that? How does it land with you?
Alex: I think I'm sort of I'm sort of not I want to say already there. But I have like a lot of friends that are musicians, and a lot, like a good number of them. Like I said, earlier on, my friend was helping me with a song. And we were trying to like, work out a sound. I've had other friends, like, send me like, Oh, I really liked that song that you doing. I can do drums for you, if you want. And like, had that. So I think I have already got like, I always have like a couple of musician friends that I will send my demos to, and now like, give me kind of like I have that community already. I think it's just we're all online. And it's all so far and few and spread out and stuff. And I don't really have that physical community within Brighton I guess like I don't or or in London. Either way, like I don't have that.
Darius: Great. So you can create that for yourself.
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: I would that be? Not how to do it. But how would it be if you had that physical -?
Alex: Oh, great. If I could like yeah, like, just go and hang out with musician friends. And we play gigs, every coffee like that would be? That'd be so much fun.
Darius: You know there’s a big music studio, like 100 meters from you.
Alex: Which one?
Darius: Well, we can talk about that separately. But yeah, yeah. Globally renowned. So yeah, I think that's - as a step then, how is that?
Alex: It's on me. It's on me to make that step.
Darius: Yeah. Does it? Does it feel attractive?
Alex: Yeah. Yeah. It's something that I've been wanting to do for a long time.
Darius: Great.
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: So something you could make happen?
Alex: Yeah. I have a few people here in Brighton that I do know.
Darius: And then the other thing I wanted to touch on. Because I've seen this a lot in people. And this comes back to this asking for help. And support is, if you could choose anyone to mentor you.
Alex: Yeah?
Darius: Who would you choose?
Alex: As a musician?
Darius: Right. Yeah.
Alex: Like any musician, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Um, I feel like it'd have to be like some of the artists that me and Cassie listen to like Phoebe Bridges, or Hayley Williams, like people that have like, defied genres and just kept going for like, a long time. Yeah. And just have like that musicality that I really respect.
Darius: And how many times have you reached out to them for support?
Alex: I mean, they're like, millions -
Darius: So how many times have you?
Alex: Never!
Darius: Yeah. And so that's the interesting question is like, what's in the way to contact and connect with them? To say, Hey, this is me, I'd love to get some support and advice from you.
Alex: I guess the fact that they, it's that obviously, that probability that they might not, you know, respond, and then you have to, it's not even embarrassment, because there's such there's such large musicians within the music community. So it wouldn't, it would just feel silly, almost asking them because it's, like expected, and you're expected not to get a response? Because they have like millions of followers.
Darius:
What's the logical conclusion of that?
Alex: Well, I haven't tried any -
Darius: you haven't tried it. But what's also the logical conclusion to try? Because there's no harm in trying all right. And what do you think everyone else is thinking?
Alex: The same thing
Darius: The same thing, yeah. Which means very few people are doing it. So if we imagined like, Oh, they're so busy. They got everyone's asking them for help, you know, whatever it is, or never, you know, reality is very few people.
Cassie: Yes, true.
Darius: And then if you connect, you know, if you come from a place of look, I love what you're doing. You know, I love this. Here's where I am. I'd love to, you know, I don't know if it'd be possible. But yeah, if you've got X Y, Zed, I'd love to get your take on perspective on. Yeah, genuinely asking for help. People love helping. And they love helping people who are resourceful, and know what they want. So if you wrote you talked about communication, if you wrote a saying heartfelt, not loving, so people just like, hey, this is the most meaningful thing I know in the world. And I've been doing it for years. I'd love to get some steps from you on kind of what next? You know, here's a couple of things I've recorded, not looking for you to promote them. But just to give you an idea of where I'm at. You know, is there anything can you spare? 10 minutes, 15, I don't know whatever you want, right? Make the request. What do you think might happen?
Alex: They don't respond?
Darius: That could be one possibility. What's another possibility?
Alex: They'll be like, Wow, this girl, she's so cool. I'm gonna help her. She's not asking me to like promote anything, whatever she just wants
Cassie: Especially if it's, you know, sincere, heartfelt, I think they'd be able to relate because at one point they were on the other end. And it could be good for like, networking. Like, they might not be your mentor, but it might be like, I know this person, great. Stepping stones. Yeah.Go home and write a letter.
Alex: Yeah, that's my homework!
Darius: Yeah, tell me what's going on for you. When I'm saying that.
Alex: Like, honestly?
Darius: Yes, honestly.
Alex: It just feels the immediate feeling I get it was just like, nah. Like, that is like my initial, I think it's that it almost my initial reactions are pretty negative, I'd say. And then I have to, like, sit back and be like, No, Alex, like, think about it. Right. And it's the thinking aspect that we were talking about earlier. That it's easy to not do. And it's easy to not, I guess, like, believe in? It's like, it mixes up with like believing in yourself and abilities. And yeah.
Darius: So the beauty of it, as I see it is that you don't need to pretend to be anyone you're not you don't need to believe in yourself. Right? You can come from a place of complete authenticity, we can use that word of like, here's where I am. Here's my doubts, my fears, whatever, just all you're all you're doing is saying, here's where I am. I really rate you. And if you're open to it, I'd love to get some input from you. What comes up?
Alex: Just seems like something- it seems like like something in a film, you know, oh, I messaged my, like, favorite musician. And oh my god, they read my message. They want to help like it. It seems like a fantasy. Like fiction, basically. Because I know I've had those, like little fantasies in my head before. Oh, my gosh, I ran into so and so. And they discovered me or whatever.
Darius: Yeah. How do you - imagine this. Imagine that you had some success? Maybe a lot of success. 20 years ahead. And someone wrote to you. How do you think you might respond?
Alex: Oh, I'd love it. Because that's my whole that was that's my whole drive is to have people relate and reach.
Darius: Right. So here's a different frame. Maybe they're feeling the same way. Like wow, no one's writing to me. Yeah. And you're stealing the opportunity from them of helping you, because you're not writing to them.
Alex: Yeah.
Cassie: Yeah, I think often with musicians, the most kind of letters or, you know, messages online, is just wow, I love you. You're amazing. Yeah, but not actually people being like, you know, can you give me some? Yeah, cuz that would be different for them. Because they probably like you were saying they don't get that often. Normally. It's just people admiring them. Especially now I'm sure they like, but I think they'd be more like, wow, this guy was like, actually, like, you know, that's impressive.
Alex: Yeah. I think you're right. A lot of musicians probably do just get like, the enamored kind of aspect of like, the fans.
Cassie: Yeah.
Darius: So if you were in that position, you'd love to help. We can imagine they may be in a similar place?
Alex: Yeah, I don't know them.
Darius: You don't know them. You can imagine that they could have a similar attitude and mindset.
Alex: Yeah, I know, like a lot of like, musicians have started like that own record labels and their own production. Like Phoebe Bridges has got Tom Rosenthal. He's like a UK musician. He started one as well. And he's just like, send you demos? We'll see. I might, and I should have done it. It's not it's not closed. But I haven't done it yet. It was you can be anyone, you literally don't have to have like any following or anything, you can just send the demo. And I don't know why I haven't done it. And, yeah, so there's, I think the opportunities are out there, like you said, and I think the one way that larger musicians create those opportunities is by making record labels for themselves and going against you know, like universal and those big like, record labels.
Darius: So just so again, just to kind of backtrack for people that are listening, so you know, what was we talking about a particular path or in a particular industry? What's interesting to me is the generic kind of learning and Okay, so how does that apply to me? So, you've said a lot of people thinking a lot of people wondering what's important to me. I don't know. I haven't quite figured that out. You have and you're not acting on it.
Alex: True. True. That is true.
Darius: Yeah. And you've got time.
Alex: Yep.
Darius: And you've got money. Some I'm not saying like you're not retired, but you've got. You're not like, oh my gosh, I gotta earn some more I've got I've got.
Alex: Right.
Darius: So you've got, you've got opportunity.
Alex: Yes.
Darius: And you're not taking us on the thing that's most important to you and most meaningful to you.
Alex: Sounds silly.
Darius: Well, that's how it is. Yeah. So these conversations are conversations for choice, right. Okay. So is there anything you want to do about that? And there may be there may not be and to look at okay, well, what am I if I'm not doing that, what am I doing with my life? Yeah. You already said, okay, the time is flying in, even in this little six months that you've got here? Get to the end of the six months. Where do you want to be with your music? There's a lot of, I'm not talking aboutt the job like where do you what what do you want to be in the same place?
Alex: No, I don't think I've ever wanted to be in the same place.
Darius: Right? And if you look at where you're heading at the moment, where does it look like you're going to be?
Alex: In the same place?
Darius: Yeah.
Alex: Yeah. Feeling quite upset about it. Just makes you want to, it's like, I know, I'll come out of this meeting, like, "Yeah, I'm gonna do it. And then a week later, I just, I'm gonna be back at square one again". And that's the most frustrating thing. But I'm, I'm predicting that right. Like, it hasn't happened. Like, I can't tell what's going to happen in a week.
Cassie: Yeah, I think it's because you know, yourself, but you can also surprise yourself with it,
Alex: I think it's just a part a lot of it is just based in like, I know, you think you're saying like, you know, if you don't believe in yourself, then okay. But like, a lot of time, I don't believe in my abilities. And I don't believe that I, I could be good enough. Even with the feedback I get from friends, I just think everyone's like lying to me. And I just like saying, it'd be nice, you know, but then I don't think people would keep encouraging me to do those things, but to take that, and like think about that critically, it's always easy to go for me at least to go straight into the negative mindset. And because it's the easy option, because if you don't try then you don't succeed. But if you also don't try then you don't risk the risk failing. And like failure for me, it's a massive like fear. I said it earlier, but like putting yourself out there especially in the music world, which is so competitive, competitive. And really just oversaturated at this point. And also, a lot of the time it's dictated on like social media is dictated on like an algorithm blowing you up on Tik Tok or, or getting into like a playlist on Spotify and it's that idea that you know, you put in all that work you put in all that time or that energy for it to maybe not happen for it to like to like how to defy those odds and there are a lot of odds against young new musicians. So yeah, immediate for me, it's never but what if, what if this happened I could actually go okay, because that's too optimum. That's too it's too much to get your heart set on and then to become disappointed afterwards. I've like that's always been me like hope for the worst. be pleasantly surprised if something good happens. So yeah, that's how I view a lot of it. A lot of music a lot of my life really.
Darius: So I'm so I'm sitting here with a with a view which is how you're looking at this is really unhelpful.
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: Not only unhelpful, it's also really inaccurate. So, you're sitting here currently with the pain of Oh, my music hasn't got picked up. I haven't got millions of views. Right. And that's some some level of painful experience being in that. Right. What do you think is like for someone who's video did did get picked up?
Alex: No clue
Darius: Oh my gosh. 1000 10,000 100,000 million views like, how do you measure you're gonna feel in that moment?
Alex: Overwhelmed?
Darius: Okay.
Alex: Very elated?
Darius: Great. So let's imagine that some positive emotion
Alex: Yeah. It could be, but also, probably it made me. So excited. Yeah.
Darius: Great. Yeah. And then what? And then what do you think's gonna happen? What comes next?
Alex: Yeah, it's how do you like, what do you do next? How do you capitalize off of that? I don't know.
Darius: What do you think goes on in someone's head that just had a one of their songs blow up a million views? What next?
Alex: How do I do it again?
Darius: Yeah, do it again. Right. I mentioned it doesn't happen again. Yeah. Right. Which is the reality for the vast majority of people like, Oh, that was just got picked up. Do you think that's now more painful than where you are? Or less painful?
Cassie: Less?
Alex: I think it's a different kind of pain.
Darius: Different kind of pain but it's painful.
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: Why are you saying less painful?
Cassie: Because at least you've you've tried and done it, versus the day before where it never happened. That I know. It might be harsh reality of it not happening again. But I think I'm very much you regret the things you don't do. So you could look back and be like, yeah, it happened. But if I didn't try it, it would never would happened at all. So. But I understand that it would be painful, because I feel like a lot of times, even that, when you have one hit wonders. They're like, wow, this is amazing. And then the harsh reality is some people and they never get it again. But like, I think they shouldn't be too harsh on themselves, because at least they did it. Because that's still like an amazing achievement in music, especially.
Darius: What I'm trying to point to is they're not, you know, there's unlikely to be any great relief. Whatever level of success you achieve. If you're holding on to this, well, I'm gonna get validated by how many views?
Alex: Yeah, I 100% do agree. But I also think it's almost like the vast majority of people do get that validation from views and likes
Darius: Yeah, so it's not saying you can't, you can't, but if that is what you're choosing to hold on to?
Alex: Yeah
Darius: Versus different ways of getting validated.
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: Then I think that's always going to lead to pain, and ultimately upset.
Alex: But then it's like, what, how do you start to seek out different forms? Or different avenues?
Darius: Great. So we talked about that a little bit earlier, right? You talked about building a community, physical community, that might be well, I respect with these artists or musicians, they're respecting me, we've got a genuine level of dialogue and quality, you might have some mentors who you really believe in again, who you build a relationship with? Go Yeah, great, this is keep going. That might sustain you and be a greater source of support really, over the long term. If this was something want to do with your life, it might not be. Or it might be part of your life. So finding a way for it to be in service of who you want to become. Because it's gonna be a source of pain for you through your life. Always, like no one ever quite did it? Or you can have the same level of successes you've got now and it'd be a source of sustenance. Yeah. Wow. It's it's so great. It's part of my life. Yeah. I'm loving the fact I'm getting to do this. Irrespective of, you know, and he gets you. I love reading the stories of how people get picked up. Right. And sometimes people have been going 20 years, 30 years, right. 40 years, and suddenly, they have a breakthrough.
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: It's not in our control so much. So how can you find a way to keep going and honor that piece of you and part of you, which is so important, it sounds like. Even without, oh, wow, I got a million views last week. Which I'm suggesting isn't going to change anything anyway. You'll have some momentary overwhelm, and elation, maybe. Right? And you're also gonna get 10s of 1000s people now this is awful. Why you like you're gonna get that as well. Yeah. So you're suddenly in that world. Anything else you want to ask about or check in on?
Alex: I think I'm okay. Yeah, I think I'm fine.
Darius: Where are you left at the end of that?
Alex: Um, I'd say like, I wouldn't say I don't know. I was expecting like this big kind of emotional reaction to it. And it hasn't happened, I guess. I just feel like I've taken on this information and like, okay, yeah, there's some like, there's something tangible that I actually can do. I wouldn't say I have like, like, there's no like relief or like excitement. It's just like, right. Okay. This, like, there's, there's a plan of sorts. Okay, there's a step to get to.
Darius: Great. So we've got, we've got a couple of options. And again, this is this is for you choose. So option one, I think you just hit these totally neutral is up to you to Option one is great. I've got I say what I need, but I've got enough, I'm gonna go and do something, I won't do something. And that's, you know, or option two, is we concretize not all that's quite the right word. And say, Okay, we're going to catch up again, in a week's time, 10 days time, whatever it is. Okay. And between now and then you'll take some action.
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: As a way of testing out, okay. On my current trajectory, I'm going to end up where I am, nothing's going to be different. And if I don't do it in the next six months, that's my life. Yeah. Because I just want to like have a simplified, okay, basically, nothing's going to change for the rest of my life. Unless I take action now. So let me see, am I going to am I going to do anything about this? Or at least let me know. Okay, this is just how it's gonna be now. So you could you could create a setup for yourself, where in the next week or so, you commit to taking some actions. And then we can explore Did you didn't you what happened? And how does that feel?
Alex: Yeah, I'm happy with. Oh, it's another option?
Darius: No, that's it. I was gonna ask you. Which one? Do you want to choose one?
Alex: Yeah, I want to do option two.
Darius: Okay.
Alex: Option two, please.
Darius: So what would you like to have done by the time we send it it sets in a week's time, what would you like to have done?
Alex: Well, I currently have like this person who's messaged me, saying, oh, we'd like to, I liked your demos. Would you want to play opening set at this pub in London? And I, I want to like follow up on that. Because we had like a bit of conversation, you seem like very interested in like, hosting me, but I haven't. I sort of like my last message was left on read. So I need to like chase up. And I'd like to do that, like today. Really, like get that done today and out of my head. Because then having like a gig forces me to practice and it forces me to write and that kind of stuff. So it's like a little bit of like a
Darius: Yeah, so just to be clear, you've said yes, but you haven't come from it. Yeah, okay. Great.
Alex: I think that's like my main goal about recording music like, I'm sort of recording is quite difficult to do.
Darius: So I'm not interested in difficult. Yeah, that sounds like rubbish to me. If we've got something which is important and meaningful, yeah, difficult to do. We do it. All we just accept like, this isn't actually that important to me all great. Well, then don't do it. But the difficulties are irrelevant. Oh, it's a bit hard. Like, what are you talking about?
Alex: Yeah, I think it's just my insecurities coming through again. Yeah.
Darius: This is your life. Like, okay, live, live with them. And nothing be different, right? Which is fine. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm just saying get clear on what you're really committing to and what your life is gonna be about you. So I want option two, I want to do some stuff. And my reflection back to you is what you've chosen is like the minimal thing you could do, like, Oh, I'm going to pull up on an email I've already sent. Great. I'm going to do that. What else? Or is that? anatomies? Like, yeah, great. That'll be my life on track. If I do that, and I can see it's a positive step. I'm not trying to belittle it. Yeah. It doesn't feel to me like oh, wow, this is this is a way to show what I mean if I really commit
Alex: Yeah, feels I guess what you said like it feels like the bare minimum
Darius: Right, so what would need to happen over this week for you to feel satisfied?
Alex: Oh, just to finish finish my songs. Like I never finished them. Okay. Like just to finish like two or three songs. Because I've had this like note on my computer just being like, oh, EP, I've got like all the songs. I haven't finished any of them. Great. I just want to get them done.
Darius: So how about you finished one?
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: And so do you want me - is it recorded?
Alex: Yeah, recorded it and just sort of like producing a bit.
Darius: Okay. So we've produced one.
Alex: Yep.
You'll have followed up on this key, invite request. What else?
Alex: I don't know. Because this is all that I've been doing.
Darius: Anything that we've talked about today? Yeah, that you want to take action on.
Alex: I think also reaching out to a few of my musician, friends to see what's happening here. Don't want to say the mentor thing.
Darius: It is your life, not mine. Musicians again, there's a ship again. I'm sort of being a bit directive. Yeah. So there's a shift routine. Hey, guys, what's going on? Yeah, scene down in Brighton. Yeah. Versus Hey, you know what I've been thinking about it. What would be really meaningful to me is to create a group where we're physically together and supporting each other. Does anyone else interested in that? Is there anything going on? Should we set one up? Okay. Can you feel the difference?
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: What's the difference?
Alex: You're like, not leaving things up to like interpretation and just sort of open. It's just very direct.
Darius: Yeah. And you're more sounds like more fully representing what's inside you.
Alex: Yeah. Because that's what I want.
Darius: Exactly. Exactly. Great. So so that's the third action then is the doing that.
Alex: Yeah.
Darius: Okay, and then the mentoring you were just about to tell me yeah, how excited you were to reach out to Phoebe.
Alex: It feels silly. Like, I don't know why it just feels like, like I said, like fiction. Like a like a fun movie I watched.
Darius: So. There is a great course that I could set you up with, like online. Yeah. For how to reach out to people. And has been put together by someone called Ollie Barrett. Who kind of also goes by the kind of quotation marks of most connected person in Britain. He's created this online course. That might give you some of the I mean, it's got great stories in there of him reaching out to people totally out of the blue, and amazing connections that have come about and maybe how to do that. How to make it okay. Would you be interested in exploring that? Is that what you need is a next step versus doing it?
Alex: Yeah, I think so. I think I still don't really know how to reach out and, like, I don't I don't like doing it. Okay. Yeah. So, I don't know how to either. I don't know how to do it effectively, without getting lost.
Darius: Great. Okay. Well, let me set you up with that. And then let's come back and talk about it. Okay. So I guess I want to talk to you a little bit about where you are Alex, and he just, you've heard of me just kind of digestible, but anything else you want to say reflect back?
Alex: Not off the top of my head. Just feeling scared. One of the that's one of them coming through. So yeah, just a bit. Yeah, it's good.
Darius: Okay. And I think one of the things I just want to sort of off mic was about: this work is about telling the truth to yourself about what you're really doing. And then I guess the implication of that is that most of the time, we're lying to ourselves about how things are going and what we're really up to. And that can sound heavy, but honestly, I think it's the reality for almost all of us. That we're not really being honest with ourselves about what we're what we're up to. We're either just not even present to it. Or we're kind of Oh, no, but you know, you don't understand is this or is that I'm just busy or I can't do that because for me, it was a helpful frame. This is what this is about. So you had made requests Cassie to do I think some reflection on okay, what have I, I mean, I'm hearing - tell me if I'm right. But what have I learned from this experience last six months that I'm taking into? What's next for you? Is that
Cassie: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, just some summarizing it and just I guess, because that went so quickly, and just I haven't really quite finished here last week. I haven't really had never had the time but I haven't actually like reflected.
Darius: Exactly. And again, you've heard this says many times, unless we take the time off and we don't reflect. That's kind of crazy. Or that could be just, again, if there's takeaways to think about is, I'm doing all this activity, spending hours, weeks, months doing stuff. And usually taking no time to think about oh, how did that go? Did that get me to where I wanted? Right? I'm on to the next thing. Next thing, next thing, rather than than being able to take a step back and the videos, you've got a little break between having finished this and a new thing to go, Oh, what was that all about? Did it give me what I was hoping for? What did I accomplish? Where are the gaps? Right? So so lovely, that that's in you. And let's take some time to do that. So what do you feel when you think back about the progress that you've made? And how you've developed over the six months? Is that you - you don't want to do -?
Cassie: Oh, no, I do. It's just Yeah. I think for me, because going back into doing interviews, again, just I've noticed more confidence and just talking about my ability, which is really nice. Because, you know, we have experience and time that comes more naturally to talk about, which I think I wouldn't have had prior. So that was really nice. So yeah, just feeling more capable. And I think experience does kind of for me go hand in hand like steam. So yeah, just feeling more confident in myself. Not like in an overconfident way, I'm still aware that it's, I feel quite entry level sometimes, you know, and I'm a bit nervous about starting a new role. And wondering, well, I'm kind of worried it'd be harder as well. So that's on my mind. See, I just kind of want to come into the new job. And just try and absorb as much of it and again, take away like I have here.
Darius: So there's a lot of directions, we could go from there. To do reflection. So what's in this kind of, oh, I'm not sure if I can do it. Just so great to hear myself talking confidently about what I'm capable of, then we sounded true. Yeah. The very quickly, we ended up back in "Oh I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to do this job."
Cassie: That's just my brain, though, like, part of me is like, oh, yeah, I'm great. And oh, no, you're not, you know, you've got a long way to go. I think it's more, because the company I'll be working for it's quite a lot. And just, I don't know, I think I'll be fine at it. It's just getting your feet and the in the first few months, always quite hard. But I feel happy with how I did here. But I get what you mean, now that I just think about what I just said it did go from like one to the other very quickly. But I think I do that a lot in general. Yeah, so yeah.
Darius: It's the beauty of being able to edit rather than doing live. Oh, yeah.
Alex: I wanted to do it. Well, when it was a quiet moment. Oh, my Lord. Sorry.
Darius: Yeah. So this is why the reflection is a, there's a skill set to it. And being really accurate is really important, because our brain has all sorts of overlays and fears and habits and kind of that's not helpful if you're trying to be accurate. So what my experience listening to you and you're talking about how you were in interviews, is that sounded accurate. You know, it was almost like, oh, I noticed myself being more confident, had more belief in my capability. I felt more capable and more capable. That came across. And that was a lovely thing to see. In yourself. Accurate? Yeah, that's yeah. And then it sounded like more like an old pattern of Oh, new job. I'm not sure I can do that. Which doesn't fit? No. With that same Oh, well, I feel like I'm quite entry level, you are quite entry level. Yeah, you have got a long way to go. So, to me, both those things can be true. Let me represent well, what I can do. And understand there's loads more for me to learn. Like those two aren't opposite are they?
Cassie: No, not at all, why my brain puts in an opposite. But yeah, I think they both apply to me. Definitely.
Darius: Great. Yeah. And so So this and this is where the digging deeper on the reflection is going to be helpful. What are the other skills and qualities that you've developed? They're going to support you being successful in your new role.
Cassie: I think a skill I've developed I don't know just getting back into working in to this kind of thing. collaborative kind of office, work style and working with different departments. And, you know, relearning that I think a big part for me would be like creativity, like working more on like visuals, and writing. Because I think for me, writing has always been, like the most my favorite part about marketing. So I feel more, because after uni and then locked down, I wasn't I mean, I was for like, personal, but it wasn't writing as much or doing as much for like, kind of lowered. See, I feel more like I've been doing the things I enjoy. So I think those skills and just like communication skills, I mean, I hope. But yeah, I don't know. I definitely have learned from the kickstart that it's hard to like sum up which skills? Yeah, and coming down to the
Darius: And this is the gap I see. I know, I'm asking a question. Which I mean, it sounds an innocent question. But it's actually a really hard question. In many respects. Now that I'm thinking about it, even though I'm like, so what, let's try a different way. What skills and capabilities would be useful for someone coming into a new role, any new role, like what would be the skills and qualities that would be useful?
Cassie: I think, I think more qualities, so I think the main one for me was just coming in with an open mind, listening, engaging with others. being self aware, I think that's a big one. And just, you know, being able to clap, teamwork skills are really important when you start a new role. But the more technical ones I'm not really sure about I just think more like traits.
Darius: Great. So all of them sound sound great. There's one that you haven't said that I think is implicit, but I'd love to get explicit. What are you going to need in a new role? What are you going to need to do? Do the roll? Yeah, to do that? What's that going to? Means happening? Knowledge? Yep. And what do we call acquiring knowledge?
Cassie: Experience? No. Am I not getting the right? Just?
Darius: Because it's so implicit. This is why this is the point is that and this this is why for me, it's so important these conversations is to have things which are totally obvious. Yeah. And then our unconscious be Oh, yeah. So oh, that and I can do that. So I'm going to push you a little bit more. What else? I'm not asking you for the answer, but is there something in your head (Alex)?
Alex: Oh, yeah.
Darius: Yeah. Okay. It's always easier when you're not getting asked the question. So what else?
Cassie: So the question was, what do you need going in?
Darius: What will you be doing in your new role? Not the work.
Cassie: Oh.
Darius: To do this new role, what will need to happen?
Cassie: I need to show up. Yeah, go perform. Learn.
Darius: Oh, yeah. Learn?
Cassie: Got there in the end. Yeah. And okay. I learn.
Darius: So obvious, okay. Yeah, yes?
Cassie: Yeah. No, no, I've said it. I just didn't think of it in that way.
Darius: Exactly. So all the other things, you're talking about open mindedness, communication, listening, all that kind of self awareness. Fantastic. And ability to learn is a huge one.
Cassie: Yeah.
Darius: Right, which is also underpinning all the all these other ones. So how confident do you feel in your ability to learn?
Cassie: If it's something that I'm interested in, I'm quite quick learning. But if I don't have much interest, I struggle with attention.
Darius: Are you interested in this role?
Cassie: Yeah, definitely. I mean, that's why what helped me get it is because it's to do with sustainability. And I'm really interested in that. I think, I'm pretty sure I will learn because I'll be like, This is what I want to do.
Darius: Great, which really helps when you're in a job. So how confident are you feeling about your ability to learn?
Cassie: I'd say like, an eight out of 10.
Darius: Great. Yeah. Great. And is that? Is that? A level that's good for you eight out of 10? I mean, is it that you're happy with an eight out of 10?
Cassie: I'm happy I think once I've been there a while it'll go up. But that's higher than what I would have rated it before I started this Kickstarter. So it's
Darius: Yeah, so eight sounds like a great score to me. I'm just like, Okay, great. Eight out of 10 Yeah, a key attribute, which is your ability to learn? Yeah.
Cassie: I absorb information. I like learning.
Darius: So we you know, we started a few minutes ago with oh, I don't know if I can do the job. I'm nervous. If I'm gonna be good.
Cassie: Yeah, I see the connection there. Because that's like the key thing. And if I'm feeling an A, then I should, you know, I'll be fine. Well, hopefully.
Darius: Okay, what else for what else would be helpful to kind of, you know, recognize as a strength in yourself entry into this new job that you could draw on. That would give you just genuine not like overconfidence, like, Hey, maybe put - Oh, yeah. Have you have you? I mean, if you look at how you've learned during this role, have you learned much?
Cassie: Yeah.
Darius: And I would say so too, right, and it's been pretty self directed, which is even more impressive. It's not like, Oh, hey, do this like, Okay, I need to figure this out. Let me learn that let me learn this. Let me learn that.
Cassie: Yeah, I think quite a lot of it was, you know, assessing what needs to be done and doing it and taking one initiative. Which, you know, I think that's a good skill that I've taken out of this role.
Darius: Yeah. Yeah. likely to be really useful in your next role.
Cassie: Yeah, definitely.
Darius: Great. What else could be a cause for recognizing your strength?
Cassie: As in what, what other ones have I acquired?
Darius: What else do you bring into that? You know, as you'd go into a new role that you could rely on as, like, hey, why not? I can learn. I know, I've got initiative and I can figure out what needs to get done.
Cassie: I'd say, my passion, I think they'll they'll see that. And I think that's what helped me get the job.
Darius: Great. Yes, your passion is going to come through your skill set and writing, which you've really seen and got some amazing feedback on I think, I hope you feel that you have what else?
Cassie: I think my attitude. I think with my work, especially if I enjoy it. I know in my mind the past of I don't enjoy the job, maybe not as much, but I tend to have quite a strong, positive attitude. Yeah, I think that's really important when entering,
Darius: What does that mean, a positive attitude?
Cassie: Well, just I know what I mean, but like, I want to know what you just very much like can do, but also just enjoying it. And I quite enjoy helping other people as well, which I think is like an attitude thing. And just trying your hardest at the work. I mean, that's essentially attitude. It's like taking it on and like the approach you have, because if I had a bad attitude, logical, I don't care. Yeah, well, I do care. I care about what I'm putting out there and what I'm writing, and you know, that will reflect in the work,
Darius: Great. So committed to doing great work, you're willing to work hard, you're up for learning, or you can learn this all sounds fantastic. What else? What else?
Cassie: What else? What else? So like a really obvious one? Or is it more just a general?
Darius: Connect back with that? I don't know if I'm going to be very good at this. Like how's that?
Cassie: I think that's more just like, nerves, when you start a new role, and you just have this bit of self doubt,
Darius: When who starts a new role?
Cassie: When I start a new role?
Darius: Yeah, what happens?
Cassie: This is a bit of, like, awareness that it can sometimes turn into doubt. But it's very mixed my brain like, I feel good about it. But part of me is like that. Not like anxious, but I guess a bit anxious. Yeah, we're starting a new role is quite, yeah, can drive that I remember when I started here, I was like, oh, no, what if they expect more than what I can do? I think that's just make that
Darius: Great. So let's play with that. Let's play with that. I'm imagining that's quite a common thought that arises for people. What if they expect more than I can do? Yeah. Okay. What if? What if so, what would happen?
Cassie: I mean, what if, what would happen? It wouldn't be a good thing is that if I came in, and I was underperforming? Yeah. So I'm definitely going to try to work hard to make sure that doesn't happen.
Darius: Great. But what if it did happen?
Cassie: They let me go, ultimately, or they could help me. They could give me some constructive criticism or feedback.
Darius: What do you know about yourself if there's a gap between where you are and where you need to be?
Cassie: I don't I'm not sure.
Darius: Well, like what what's the I don't know?
Cassie: That's a hard question.
Darius: How might you respond in that in that situation?
Cassie: Well, what can I do to improve?
Darius: Great Yeah, do you have anything you can draw on that's going to help you improve?
Cassie: I'd ask them
Darius: In terms of your internal qualities.
Cassie: Oh, internal what that I could improve on?
Darius: No, what can you draw on? When you're in a situation where you need to improve? You rely on yourself to see.
Cassie: Well, I guess the learning, drawing on that, and the self belief aspect of it as well, based on what I've said, yeah. Just listening. Not sure what else?
Darius: What do you think, Alex?
Alex: Um, I guess he was talking about how he had like a positive attitude, sort of seeing it as like, seeing that, maybe that feedback or that you're underperforming. There's like something positive that you can work on? I don't know, maybe.
Darius: What does this don't know? Maybe like? Why do you say that? Oh, it's I'm asking you what you see. It's not it's not I don't know. Maybe it's like, this is what I see. Right? Yeah.
Alex: No, I see Cassie as just like a person that's always ready to like, prove herself and do a good job. Like, even in the month that like we've been working together, right.
Darius: So that's what you're seeing. Yeah. And I'm also, which is great. And I'm also interested, because Because five minutes ago, you were saying, Hey, I've got a positive attitude. So what does that mean? It means I can can do, I work hard. I'm interested in getting great results. Yeah, all of those sounds exactly what you would need to when you're faced with that situation of Oh, you're expecting this and I'm here. Yeah. Great. Well, let me close the gap.
Cassie: Yeah, cuz if you had a negative, I can't do that attitude, then you wouldn't fill that gap. Right. So shouldn't put the effort in? Yeah. Whatever.
Darius: Yeah. And what's going to happen as a result of filling that gap?
Cassie: Back on track.
Darius: I'm back on track. Yeah.
Cassie: Achieving my eight might go up to a nine.
Darius: Okay, so yeah, so you might say, Yeah, more belief in myself. But as he goes up, yeah. Great. I'm on a path of progression development. Yeah. So actually, we need these gaps. Yeah. As part of a path of development.
Cassie: Yeah. So it was always just the same. Where are you going to where you're
Darius: Imagine that kind of job? And I can already do everything there was to do.
Cassie: Yeah, that's true. That's an interesting way to think I think it does create drive. And sometimes a bit of a challenge is a good thing. Because when I used to work, when I graduated, I was at Sainsbury's. And I just mean, no hate to Sainsbury's. But I just remember being like, this is not challenging me. And that made me just feel really unmotivated. So I think a challenge and filling that gap would, yeah, would motivate me as well, even though it's a bit scary. But ultimately, I think I'm at an age where I need more of that. So yeah,
Darius: Lovely. So now we can look forward to Oh, I wonder what challenges and gaps is going to be that I can get stuck into?
Cassie: Yeah, no, thank you. That's, that's a much nicer way to look at it. So yeah, I'll look at it like that. That's nice.
Darius: So how's that part of you feeling? And it's not to say it's wrong. I just can't say all right. How's that probably feels nervous. Of course. Yeah. One of the reasons for the nervousness is uncertain. Where will I be sitting? Or who was it going to be? So that's just, that's natural. What I'm what I'm inquiring into, if that's the dominant or strong, overwhelming part of how you're showing up or feeling, then I'm kind of okay, well, is that serving you? Yeah. So how is it sitting now? How are you feeling overall about?
Cassie: I think better for talking about it. But yeah, I think, if I didn't look at it more like what we were saying, just as a challenge and a stepping stone. And like, Yeah, I'm not gonna go in knowing everything. But who does when you start a new role, like, and again, if I use this to reflect on my time here, the same challenge here and overcame that, so I'll do it again. So yeah, no, it's a nicer way. But yeah, I do. It's mostly I mostly feel excited for the new role. Don't get me wrong, but
Darius: Wonderful. Yeah. Anything else you'd like to reflect on?
Cassie: Probably - what, from People and Their Brilliance?
Darius: Yeah, it's easy not to reflect. We've done we've done some talking and inquiring covered a lot of rich ground. Anything else that's not been covered or you think would be useful or feeling like there's a gap or incomplete Yeah.
Cassie: I mean, mostly, if I were to reflect it's positive, which is nice. And nothing stands out in like a negative way, which is really good. I think. It's just shows. I don't know I just feel different when I started here, which is nice. And like the self doubt, which I had when I came here And as I went with, you know, gradually, because you know, there were some times here where I remember certain things. I was like, Oh, I don't know how to do that. And often it was like, Oh, just like, Fine, like, watch a YouTube tutorial and do it yourself, which, you know, is an interesting way to learn. And I think that might might actually help me in my new role. I'm not going to be afraid to ask for help in my new job. I will. But yeah, and like we were saying about learning, I enjoy learning. And this job. I feel like the whole six months was learning, which is a nice reflection.
Darius: So you become a learning machine. Yeah. And I really want to celebrate and distinguish self directed learning, which is what you've been doing, for the most part. Yeah. To me, that's a really high level skills, a wonderful quality of assessing what do I need to learn? Okay, where can I find that learning? Let me learn it, and then apply that knowledge. Yeah. And then you go, Okay, what else? What else? Did I learn what I need to learn? Like, that's fantastic.
Cassie: Yeah, because I think quite often when in entry level, and at start, that's not the case. So there's a lot, sometimes too much guidance. And you kind of get babied along. And I think I did actually benefit from not necessarily being thrown in the deep end. It wasn't like that brutal, but you know, just like doing it myself. Actually take that away in a positive light.
Darius: Might be the number one biggest thing.
Cassie: Yeah, I didn't think about before, so I have reflected. Yeah.
Darius: So does that feel complete?
Cassie: Yes. Yeah. No, it does. Nothing else. springs to mind, to be honest. So yeah, that feels good.
Darius: Great. So let's do a quick reflection on how this has gone. How have you found the conversation?
Alex: really insightful. I've liked hearing about Cassie and kind of where she's at right now. And also the ways that she was sort of being guided into like, appreciating the qualities that was like, you perhaps you had gained over working here. As a new starter. It's nice to hear see that progress, literally, that you talked about? And like, right, yeah, I'm from like, my stuff. It's, you can think about things. But you've also got to do things, I think. And I think that's where I'm at, like, I've spent all this time thinking just got to do it. Like if I actually genuinely want that second option. Just have to do it. And, yeah, so that's been good.
Darius: Great. Anything either of you want to say to me, to be complete? And that includes anything right. You can be, you know, just anything that feels good complaints. Question. Challenges.
Cassie: What are your reflections?
Darius: I'm happy to answer that question. But I want to stay with mine first. Okay. So, anything, anything you need to say to be complete? To me?
Alex: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thanks.
Cassie: Yeah, I guess, you know, thank you, I think that it was nice, not only for me to talk about myself, but to hear you. And maybe when you finished your six months, you'll you know, you'll be able to reflect in a nice way as well. And outside of this, you know, for the opportunity to learn for those six months. So, you know, this has been yeah, we're just Yeah, I guess, ultimately grateful. It's my main takeaway.
Darius: So let me answer your question. My reflection, which is just how needed this skill set is of being able to reflect on who you know, who I am, what have I got to offer? How do I talk about what's going on inside me? Right? Most of us are not very articulate, we haven't developed much skill set, we haven't spent much time doing it. And the more able we are to do that inquiry, I think that's an incredibly vital skill set. So so my reflection is that we we got there, sometimes it took a bit of staying with it, too. And it's fine. I mean, that's why we have these conversations. So but that's my that's my reflections. Yeah, this and it's not uncommon. And then also kind of a little bit of okay, well, how do they show up? And um, Did I did I were the questions and responses that I offered helpful or as helpful as they could have been since a little bit of my own inquiry into How how succinct was a or how, and I don't care that heavily. But that's part of my my own reflective process. Yeah, thanks. Great. Well look thank you both for coming in. Really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for joining us. We will be catching up with Alex again. So if you're interested in what actually happens, you can tune into our next episode. And until then, have a great time. Thank you.
Cassie: Thank you.
Alex: Thanks, bye
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