#5. 2021 End of Year Reflections - People and Their Brilliance
"The beautiful gift that you can give yourself"
At the end of the year, the team at People and Their Brilliance sit down to reflect on where they are at and what is the work they want to do moving forward. First, Harry leads a group discussion of what they want to bring to this episode’s conversation, thinking about “what is the best use of our time together?” Then Darius hears each of the burning questions, opening up a conversation around drive, confidence, motivation and action. At the root of all these themes is the courage and skill of asking the question: “Is what I am doing wanted and needed?” It can be so easy to sleepwalk through life, unaware of the answer to that question. By being in that question, and confronting the answer, so many possibilities open up.
Listen to full episode :
-
Darius and his habit of no alarm clock will return in future episodes, but for now you can read more about it in a blog post on our website here.
For more on this idea of “negative” feedback being really valuable, we recommend watching this brilliant video from Benjamin Zander.
Alex worked as a Recruitment Administrator for People and Their Brilliance and is now continuing to work part time in recruitment whilst pursuing her career in music. You can connect with her on LinkedIn @Alexandra Purpura.
Casey is currently working in digital marketing and is due to graduate from the Kickstart scheme in May. You can connect with her on LinkedIn @Casey White.
Ciaran worked as a Recruitment Administrator before graduating from the Kickstart Scheme. You can connect with him on LinkedIn @Ciaran Keogh.
Henry is currently working in digital marketing and recently graduated from the Kickstart Scheme. You can connect with him on LinkedIn @Henry Dewar.
Todd worked as a Training Administrator before graduating from the Kickstart Scheme. You can connect with him on LinkedIn @Todd Wheatland.
-
Harry McMullen
Cool. Okay. So yeah, we are back together from last week. Alex, you're here as well. And Henry you were on Zoom last week. So, Darius is not here. It's an empty seat next to me. And he has asked that we'll spend the first couple of minutes just kind of going over what we covered. Last time any kind of reflections or things that have been coming up for you. And you've thought back about the last podcast we did? And then what's kind of in the room about what we want to do this week's podcast is, we're all together, we've got some time to talk together. What do we want to talk about? What's going to be the most valuable use of that time? Get the best results? And feel the best? And so yeah, why don't we kick off, when you think back to last week? What springs to mind for you?
Henry Dewar
I guess I could go first. I for me, most of it was I didn't know what I was talking about. And I didn't know how relevant what I was saying was. But yeah, did have more clarity in the end, but still, I'm not sure if it's appropriate. Yeah, and I guess I struggled a lot to come up with that question in the first place. Darius seem to think there was some value to it in the end. So I guess we can expand on it. See where it goes?
Harry McMullen
Cool, thank you.
Todd Wheatland
It was good to see that we had like the sort of same question? I dunno what yours was Alex, but ours was like confidence based. So it was good to have reassurance that I'm not the only person feeling that.
Harry McMullen
Yeah, it was interesting. I've had a chance to listen back to some of it and at one point Darius says is it's almost like the same question being asked, in different ways. Yeah. Good to hear like a sense of like, reassurance. I'm not the only one.
Todd Wheatland
And then Darius goes, like some good examples of him having that as well, which is also reassuring. Nice.
Ciaran Keogh
Yeah, I'm so happy I got to speak about it because you know, it's geting to the end of my placement, it's something that's been on my mind quite a bit. Just sort of looking forward. I wish I knew there were more ways to kind of like, like, apply it. That makes sense. Put it into practice. So I didn't really get a chance to speak with, with anyone since then about what we did. Didn't get a chance to ask Darius for example, like, how do you think I've done right? Do you think? Yeah, do you think I've had the most I can, on this placement. Wish I could have done that. But working from home, didn't really get chance to. So I think I've still got a few more than I think there's still a few things left on answered. Or a few different things we could look at.
Harry McMullen
Okay, so thinking about this session, maybe a chance to ask How about have I done how's my placement gone? And also to dig in maybe a bit deeper into this confidence thing we were talking about last week? Is clarifying is that, what do you think we could be doing with this? This next hour?
Ciaran Keogh
Yeah. But also what I could take off, take take with me from this, from this job to wherever I go next. Right. But that's, that's very specific to me. The rest of you guys.
Harry McMullen
Yeah, no, but it's good. I mean, this is your time as much as it's everybody else's. So if that's what you want to talk about. Brilliant. Thank you.
Casey White
Yeah, I think it's definitely sort of interesting how everyone had a similar question around confidence. And, yeah, I agree with Todd. It was like really reassuring to sort of see that. And I think, yeah, confidence is such like a big topic that I think we could explore it more. And definitely sort of take some time I think before like, I personally am like 100% Confident, like, where I'm at in the workplace especially. Yeah, yeah.
Harry McMullen
So do you think this is the - cos we could talk about anything. But do you think digging into this thing about confidence, like a bit deeper in this next session will be - is that something that's on your mind?
Casey White
Yeah, I think certainly that could be useful.
Harry McMullen
Great. And Alex, you weren't here last week. So I want to ask you for your you can reflect on what you were doing at 11 o'clock in the morning last Wednesday, if you want. Otherwise, yeah. What do you think about this session?
Alexandra Purpura
Well, confidence in the topic, my question was a little bit different. I think mine was more about maintaining drive, and ambition in a job. That isn't your passion. I guess. I think that's something that I really struggle with. I'm not losing steam, you know, like six months. It's like, okay, I'm done. Move on. Let's keep going. So, yeah, I think my question was a little bit different than everyone else's. In that sense, so I'm not sure if we can. I'm not sure if we'll delve into it today, or whether that's something for another podcast. But yeah, I think confidence is also a very important thing. I think I'm getting more confident in my job and in the workplace. So any little anything helps.
Harry McMullen
Yeah, right. Yeah, and I suppose that thing about keeping drive and energy and momentum, even if it's not necessarily coming from a place of this is what gets me out of bed in the morning. I want to try and like crowbar the theme in but it feels like that's a measure of having confidence in what you're doing. Maybe, anyone with me? The silence is deafening. Okay, cool. But ya know, that's, that's an interesting topic. And I think this is something you and I have got in common where there's like a vocation, outside of the People and Their Brilliance stuff. So how do I go, and I want to get out of bed in the morning and do this. This is what I'm doing with my time. Just suppose you're curious about what's this new thing? And I'm going to try it that can sustain the first couple of weeks, months or whatever. But how do you get five, six months into a project and go "Still gonna do this? Still my job? Still gonna do my best?" Yeah, yeah, I can relate to that. Yeah, thanks, everyone. I think for me, grateful we've got this time, the beginning to go, what I want to do with this time. I've got so focused on, I've got to travel to Brighton and then set my thing up. And we're going to be in a different room in a different space and all this kind of stuff. I didn't even think about what we would talk about. Yeah, I think for me, this thing of confidence is useful. I've also been thinking a lot about integrity and sort of how do I stay strong? How am I coming from a place that feels strong, no matter what I'm doing. So if it's something maybe it isn't my passion, or it's something that I've not done before? Or just, you know, I find myself coming under any kind of challenge that everyday life for or something specific, how do I go, okay, my house is in order. I'm coming from a place that feels strong, I can rely on I can back myself, and be safe to be curious, and all these other things as well. So that's probably what I'd like to talk about. So we've got like a few different things going on in the room. I can kind of sense. Yeah. Do we feel like we want to try and tackle them all? Or do they feel like there's an umbrella that can cover everything? That's, if you if you're looking back at the end of the session going? Oh, my God, that was amazing. What do you think has happened? Or what do you think we have covered?
Harry McMullen
I'm not sure, I think it'd be a bit - for the time that we have. And just sort of a lot of a lot of different people here. So like, Come away for all of us come away from session be like, Oh my gosh, that's amazing. I don't know if there's some. I don't know. I can't think of anything at the moment. But I know Darius can always like bring something out. Yeah. And then you just like, Oh, wow. Like you wouldn't have thought of it. I think, for me personally, I can't think necessarily like, what would make the session? Amazing.
Harry McMullen
Okay, what do you what do you feel like what would make it amazing for you? If we were all like, you know what, let's just show up for Alex this week, that will be great. What do you think would be a great time for you?
Alexandra Purpura
Just sort of, I think when everyone was talking about like the reassurance last out last week session about, you know, first of all, everyone seeing that they struggle with confidence in the workplace. And then I can't remember if it was taught. I think it was Todd that said that Doris was giving examples of when he hasn't felt confident. I think I always enjoy hearing of out how other people have struggled. It makes you feel not alone. You see someone like Darius who's like made all of this and really like, you know, succeeded. And hearing that, oh, he's kind of like me as well. So perhaps hearing some examples of you know, like, being someplace where you're struggling to get through your day sometimes be your best self at work and bring yourself maybe like, yeah,
Harry McMullen
yeah. When there's something we talked about in the training about, you know, what does good look like? Like to just to get clear, first of all on: What does it look like if someone achieves what I want to achieve? Or what does a good outcome look like? I mean, that's a version of the question that I asked is, what's a good version of this podcast for everyone. And I think the analogy that I came up with, and I trotted out whenever I can, because I'm, like, really proud of it, is that without kind of a clear picture of what good looks like or what you're trying to achieve, it's like trying to draw a picture of a face you've never seen before. You can actually maybe do a fairly good job of someone kind of described and it looks something like this. And they're blue eyes or whatever it is, if you have a photograph, that's what they look like. I can draw that picture so much easier. So yeah. Great. So wants to actually use my phone because our backup, who wants to ping Darius, bring him down. Any other thoughts on so that's Alex's take on what the good podcast would look like this kind of reassurance, maybe an idea of what it looks like to be able to overcome these challenges that you're facing? Yeah, maybe taking away a little bit this relationship was like, he's this super person who's never had any problems and has built this huge thing. And I'm over here struggling. Yeah. Any other thoughts on how we want to spend this time together?
Todd Wheatland
Going into the drive part of it as well? Because that can affect confidence? Yes. Be a good path to go down, I guess.
Harry McMullen
Oh, yeah. Drive in, like, motivated to go somewhere. So it's really would like to throw in all these different things in the past, it's eventually going to taste good, hopefully. Yeah. Any other thoughts?
Casey White
Yeah, I think I'd agree as well about the drive being an interesting topic. Because like, now Alex actually said it, I've realised that oh, yeah, that would be good to talk about. But I just like, don't think of it like that. There's always things that like, we could talk about, it's just sort of like getting out there.
Harry McMullen
Yeah. Yeah, again, like a clearer picture of what's on the agenda. What do we want to achieve? Come back to this thing of what is a good podcast look like? Yeah. Which is great.
Ciaran Keogh
I think it'd be good to talk about how he put those kind of ideas into practice, because it's all well and good just talking about it and throwing these ideas around. But why don't we actually walk walk out of this room? And what changes? Really like, do we what what kind of actions that we have for ourselves? What kind of practical ways can to help us either in our day to day work, or just everyday life? Anything beyond that? This? welcome change? Really?
Harry McMullen
Yeah. Yeah. So we translate in these ideas into action? Yeah. Right. Yeah, I think there can be a just speak from my experience of being part of sessions here and elsewhere. We're kind of where I've walked away with this really nice feeling of like, that felt really good. And I feel really inspired. I feel like I just spent my time well, the action maybe didn't match up
Darius Norell
Hello! I'm sitting there? Gosh.
Harry McMullen
Okay, so we talked about, about the kind of confidence piece from last week, and there was some intention about can we explore that deeper? Can we maybe talk about how we translate these ideas into action? go a bit deeper into the topic. Lots of talk about drive. So how, how do we sustain ourselves, how's one to sustain themselves? Maybe across a longer period of time, or when they're facing kind of challenge? And I threw in about integrity as well, how do I feel like I'm strong and coming from a place that's strong, so even if I'm coming up against some challenge, or the thing that I'm trying to achieve is difficult, or, you know, six months into a project and I'm still quite long way to go, how do I go, okay, where I'm coming from is strong. I can back myself because I have confidence in myself. And we did play with maybe what's an umbrella term to bring all these things into one idea when actually it kind of feels like going to a room full of different people or bringing different things in and let's not try and dilute it by trying to give it a theme. Unless one emerges.
Harry McMullen
So I'm curious how come Harry's answering?
Ciaran Keogh
Because I think we've all got different things to talk about Harry's the one who was hosting and sort of taking in all these different viewpoints.
Alexandra Purpura
Sort of like our soundboard.
Darius Norell
Yeah. So the reason I say that is that we want these sessions to be as powerful as possible, because that's the intention I'm coming with. I'm thinking that you do too. Is that right? And so, me hearing from you, what's really live and important for you? Is the stop point and the way to make these powerful, right? So I'm listening to lots of things. So I'm listening to the words, I'm listening to what you're not saying, since the tone the energy that, you know, so I'm bringing a lot of attention. And if someone else is saying some words, then I'd lose that connection with is this even important to you?
Alexandra Purpura
Because I wasn't in the session last week, I was sort of getting an update of what was said, and what was talked about. And I think there was like this theme of confidence and in a lot of everyone's questions, and I felt like my question was a little bit different. So I was kind of interested in focusing more on drive and motivation, and sustaining yourself in a job role, that might not necessarily be something of a part of one passion, but might hold parts of another passion or another set of values. Yeah. So that was sort of where I was looking at. Because I know that that's something I've I struggle with a lot saying, the energy going. So but then hearing everyone's we've got confidence. I think confidence is a key part in any, anything that you do, even even if it's my passion, or if it's work or whatever. So I think that it ties in pretty well.
Darius Norell
And then again, it doesn't, we don't have to stick to one thing, but just to make a direct link, if you know, confidence can be a source of energy, right? Lack of confidence can be source of energy going down. So it's like how do I sustain myself? Well, feeling confident that what I'm doing is actually wanted and needed, is can be a real source of energy. So just to make that connection. So how about for those of you that were were here last time? What is it that you want to clarify build on, get, that would be useful? If there is something right, it doesn't have to be like but that's what we're here for? Is that something?
Todd Wheatland
I think more like to implement the things that we went over last time? So I don't think I've not asked you about like how I'm doing. So I think I'd be something good to go over.
Darius Norell
Great. So what did you get from last time then?
Todd Wheatland
just sort of like asked that how we're doing so I reassure ourselves, even if we think we're doing good.
Darius Norell
Okay, and so fantastic. So you're absolutely right. So so you'll hear me talk a lot about being in the conversation with how am I doing? And you haven't done that?
Todd Wheatland
No.
Darius Norell
And more specifically, what's is? Do you remember a question or framing or is there one in your mind about what you would ask?
Todd Wheatland
That sort of like, I remember, like the ways to do it, and like sort of how to do it, but I just haven't done it.
Darius Norell
Okay. And is there any help you need to actually do it?
Todd Wheatland
I don't think so. But just implementing it properly. I guess something we'll go over.
Darius Norell
So what So what is it? So as I hear that intent? It seems really clear like hey, you talked about this I haven't done it fantastic. Really clear on that. What's in the way for you to do it myself basically. Okay. And what would you want from me or conversation to help you get out of your own way?
Todd Wheatland
I think it's all like links to like the drive and be like not doing it. So like why would I want to do that?
Darius Norell
Why would you want to find out. Yeah, okay alright, let's let's hold that thank you for that what else
Henry Dewar
for me I guess not really sure how relevant what I said was and if I still feel like strongly about it.
Darius Norell
I thought what you said last time was fantastic. Yeah, I mean, I just said it just to kind of reconnect with it as I heard it. If it's okay to say it again, which is what you were experiencing - at least as I heard it - was this work feels personal. I'm coming to work, why are we talking about things like - I'm not sure, I'm ready for, up for seeing the connection to: why are we talking about these things? Which I'm finding a personal, which I like how I think my attitude, but when we're talking about work, yeah. And now your reflection is like, either you're maybe seeing there is a connection, or you're more comfortable with it or - what's something shifted?
Henry Dewar
I'm not really sure. I would like to maybe hear. Or like, yeah, maybe if more questions were asked to me about, like, they pushed me in the right direction, because I'm not really sure where to go from here.
Darius Norell
So on that on that question that you raised, which is a foundational one, because if you know, if you're, if you're not available for talking about stuff, then then we can talk about stuff, and it's not going to make much difference. Is there still still a sort of question for you about why are we talking about things? We've seen personal consensus about? What's going on in your head, your views attitude? In a work context, does that make sense to you or not make you comfortable that I'm not comfortable?
Henry Dewar
Yeah, I guess for the most part, it's just the way maybe the way I tend to think about those things is like, quite different, or I like to kind of have time to think about myself, like, and think about, think through it myself. And so maybe it's just not, just feels a bit strange or something.
Darius Norell
Okay, so that's, that's lovely. So you're used to doing some level of inquiry or investigation or work by yourself. And now it's being done? Not by yourself? You're being sort of invited into a process? And could you see the benefit of that?
Henry Dewar
Yeah. Yeah, I guess like, if other people can sort of see things you can't see.
Darius Norell
Right. Right. And if other people have been on a journey, and gone, well, that these are the most valuable questions that I've found to ask or areas to inquire into. That could sit close to me could really accelerate your own inquiry. Sure. And for me, the key things, those two go together, right? It's not, oh, I'm just gonna replace my own inquiry with this one now, or I'll just do what is said is like, Oh, great, here's some stimulation that I'm then going to digest on my own and make my own sense of the site to agree with or adopt or not. Right, that's, that's up to you. So the idea is, it's a catalyst and an accelerator for your own inquiry. Does that seem accurate to you? And say, Sir, okay. And so where are you then in terms of what might be useful to look at? or cover? Because you're saying I'm not you're not sure what might be next? What? Is there a question there? Or?
Henry Dewar
I like the idea of covering like, drive. As a subject.
Darius Norell
Great. Lovely. So you know, your energy go towards that?
Henry Dewar
Yeah.
Darius Norell
Great. Wonderful. Okay, who else? Let's get what, because everything on the table, and then we'll see what gets created?
Casey White
I think. Yeah, going back to my original question, I think it was about goal setting. Yes, I think that does kind of link back to confidence and drive and motivation. Yeah. So I think maybe by asking, like that question, maybe that was like the underlying sort of femur, which I didn't really sort of even realise until today. Lovely. But yeah, I think, for me, like, motivation has always been a bit hard, even if it is something I'm passionate about. And it's just kind of keeping myself accountable. And yeah, like not getting in my own way. Yeah.
Darius Norell
So are you able to share a bit more? Kind of, what do you notice about what happens when you're, when you even, when you are motivated? What can happen? What do you see happen?
Casey White
I think it's just very easy for me to like slipping into like, not doing things I thought kind of have to be like, told to do things I was won't do it. Some reason this is kind of annoying.
Darius Norell
But do you enjoy that, like being told what to do?
Casey White
Not really, I feel like I should be able to you say to myself, I'm going to do it. And I'm actually doing it. Yeah. Not like letting myself down in a way.
Darius Norell
Yeah. So I'm wondering, and again, this, you know, there are some personal limits to this. And I haven't we haven't known each other that long. I've seen you in some contexts. We haven't had a lot of connection in contact. I have a deep sense of just incredible power in you. And I don't see it coming out yet. But I have a sense of the so much that that's available and ready. There's nothing new. It literally is this question of joining things up it's all going to be flooding out of you. Which to me speaks a little bit what you've noticed that "Hey, how's it I'm motivated, I'm committed and yet, I don't seem to be acting that way". Think we're in the right territory?
Casey White
Yeah, I think so.
Darius Norell
And so what happens when I say I see this immense potential and power in you?
Casey White
Yeah, part of me is like a bit like, taken aback. I don't know if I believe that about myself.
Darius Norell
Yeah.
Casey White
Yeah, it's definitely sort of new to me to be told something like that.
Darius Norell
So if it was true, what is it that I would be seeing you think?Yeah, so I'm gonna invite you to think about it. Not right now. Not not not looking for an answer now. But to think that someone's saying, I'm saying it sincerely. I'm not making it up. What is it that I might be seeing? That's ready. That currently there's a sort of, like a block on it flowing out freely. But I think it is connected to what you've said, I think there's a great insight around your request around, hey, how do I write up a plan and so on? Rooted in confidence, and then I'm connected to confidence and energy? And it comes back to what we've talked about last time was this peace of mind? And I'm going to suggest that all of us are, you know, our brains are with this question is what I'm doing okay. Am I okay, is what I'm doing okay? Alright, so just continually in that question. Let's just say that's normal. That's what most people are doing most of the time, far more than we realise. Right? And so one of the ways to, for that source to get peace around that answer is, is what I'm doing really wanted and needed, and really being open to finding out the answer. Right, as we can run away from that question of like, oh, I don't want to find out, I don't want to hear that actually, well I'm not needed or not wanting to have to leave my job or change something or that's upsetting to hear. Right? So we can do all sorts of things to avoid that conversation. Right? And where does that lead in the extreme, we could spend our whole lives doing something. And then we find out the day before we die, like "Oh, everything you've done in your life just was useless". Right? And there is a, you know, you can get yourself in a logic was like, Well, at least I didn't know all that. I was didn't know that time, right? But is that what you would want to find out? I don't like for me, it's like, I don't want to find I don't want to find out at the end of my life that everything that I was doing, was for nothing, was making no difference wasn't wanted, wasn't useless was tolerated. That's not what I would want. And so the reverse of that isn't so Okay, well, then I need to be in the question now. Which I think well, you've got to last time of, okay, it's what I'm doing wanted or needed. If you recall, the place that we I was claiming was the most powerful place to come from, is being available to hear what you're doing is not wanted, it's not needed. Thank you for your time, that there isn't anything here for you. And being ready and able to step out of a situation. Okay, that's now I'm going to add value by getting out of the way. Because me being here and hanging around is just That's not what's helpful us. We might be in a bit of a conversation about it if we conclude Yeah, okay, I can see what it's not wanted or needed. Something else that I can shift and help here. Great. Let me get out of the way. So are we able to come to that conversation from that place of being able really to move? Does that making sense when I'm when I'm saying that
Henry Dewar
this is just a in a work context?
Darius Norell
Well, I'm gonna say in any relationship if you want to take it to non work.
Henry Dewar
Because you talk about like, finding out whether what you're doing is valuable. Yeah, but it seems like a lot of is like is it valid valuable to other people that way, for example, or your you make films, and like, everybody hates the films, they think they're terrible and disgusting. But you love them and make them for yourself.
Darius Norell
Lovely.
Henry Dewar
And you think that's the most valuable thing like this is why wake up in the morning? Yeah. And then like, on your deathbed, everybody's like, I still just really hate your films. You're like, well, I like them. And you die happily.
Darius Norell
Great. So let's unpack that is a great example. And because I think what it speaks to is maybe connecting to this idea of integrity, you're creating something in that sense, with a particular intent. And as far as you can see, you're fulfilling your intent of like, I'm creating what I want to create. If nobody likes it, that that's fine. That's not meeting, that's not on my list of criteria of things that that I want to do. Right. So I think there is a place for creativity, to create from that, that has integrity and authenticity, which is like, here's just pure creation, people like my film or not people like my music or not, I was reading about quite a famous artist recently who was talking about their journey from creating, you know, in a way that was not really categorised horrible that people loved it, and then maybe getting sucked into a little bit of like a watch like, right next that people will respond to. And now at a point is, like, he said, I just totally lost touch with what people want or don't want. I don't even know. And you know, I don't even carry what I'm just creating things. And I leave it to other people to figure out what should be in the gallery on top of like, and it's so we can get to a point. And again, the curious thing was, again, was really another article about creators and about people. How come so many famous people or people who are successful at creating music, don't spend 10 or 20 years just creating stuff they want to create, right? Because they can at that point, and a lot of them getting stuck in or I could get the next hit or the next album. And I can't remember the author's will drummers, artists, who basically just done that. I spent 10 years just in my studio, doing whatever I want now. And they did. And there was nothing there for anyone. Right. And I think I can't remember the time period, I'm sick 20 years, oh, my gosh, look what they've created now. And they were happy all that time. They didn't need, they were lucky, they've been successful. got enough money, they could, that's the greatest freedom in a way. And yet a lot of us get trapped in that I got to do something for someone. So So there's, I don't want to contradict myself all kind of get mixed messages. So there's on the one hand, we can create from a place of, hey, I'm creating in line with a vision I've got. And and maybe this then, you know, at some point, there's okay, how does this connect with the world? And at that point, we might want to understand, okay, is this wanted or needed? Right? If that's a requirement on that project, no, maybe I can create in a way because I don't need to connect it or not at that stage, or it's just a side thing, I'm gonna great, I just gonna do that in my own way. And so I guess that's the thing back to work is when when we're in work, and an assist that is, we do need to be understanding how is what I'm creating, wanted or needed. And, again, not to get too too philosophical. Much of what's created in the world isn't needed. By this is kind of the least as I say, the sort of what's creating breakdown in our world is so much stuff that's getting created that isn't needed. Whether that's food or drink, or services, or whatever it might be, that are really dominant, right, it was always kind of had this idea that they needed, but that creates all sorts of dislocation in my view. So I'm quite, that feels like to stay quite practical and low level. That's, that's the opposite of big picture, vision. But does that Does that answer your vision, so I think it's time in place, we're creating words not connected. And that can be beautiful and powerful. And particularly when we're in a work context, I think we're certainly employed, or we've got clients, the more freedom and spaciousness we can come with. And again, I want to really make sure because I think this is both. Like I've lost connection with how powerful or important this point is, like, it feels really important. I don't know how difficult it is to as an idea to make sense of, and I need your help in that. I don't know if you will. Okay, I've got it 10 minutes ago while you're talking, but it's still like, I don't actually get it. Because it's so deep. Well, how able do you feel to come from that place? of, okay, I can hear I'm not wanted or needed, I'm ready to move.
Alexandra Purpura
Well, that's a really difficult thing. Like, from my understanding, to be told, in a place that you've probably worked out for X amount of years, like, Oh, we don't actually need you anymore. We're gonna let you go. I guess what a lot of people had when they were made redundant. In like 2008, like that being told that never like it can either make or break you. I think a lot of people would, would struggle with ever going, feeling the confidence and going back into the workplace or changing their career or keeping like, just keep going.
Darius Norell
So let me try disagreeing and see. See how that works out. So if I'm clear on what's important to me as, you've heard me talk about values, if you're on what's important as a source of strength, I'm clear on what my brilliance is, what I've got to offer. And I'm committed to offering in a place that it's actually wanted or needed, then I'm delighted to hear this message. Because I don't want to spend time in a relationship in a place where what I've got is not wanted or needed.
Alexandra Purpura
But I think what I'm saying is that
Darius Norell
I'm trusting there's, there's a different place that I can bring myself that is wanted and needed.
Alexandra Purpura
I don't think a lot, a lot of people would see that in themselves.
Darius Norell
Yeah, that's exactly what we're doing this work. Well, what's important to you? What's your brilliance? And what are you gonna use in service? All right, that's right. A lot of people aren't clear on that. And so this is the path I'm suggesting is a way to be free, you know, sort of great if I am clear what's important to me. And I am clear about what I've got to offer my brilliance. And I'm clear about, you know, what are good situations and environments for me to bring that in a way that's really contributing. That's a winning formula. I'm claiming. Ciaran. We haven't heard from you yet. What's what was on your mind?
Ciaran Keogh
You want me to? Well, what am I I'm sort of responding to?
Darius Norell
Your original - thank you for clarifying - your original email. Yeah, yeah. What would you like us to be covering today?
Ciaran Keogh
Honestly, Todd kind of covered it for me. Really just getting into the, into what you can, what you do going forward once you've tackled those ideas. And so let's say you ask someone, okay. What am I offering? Or am I doing something that's warranted? Yeah. And let's say they say, you're doing really well. You know, we like having you here. You're making a big making, like, you're making a real difference.
Darius Norell
Yeah.
Ciaran Keogh
How would that - okay, I mean, that would feel really good. But what would you then do with it?
Darius Norell
Great.
Ciaran Keogh
What would it tell you really, or worst case they say, Okay, now, we don't need you, or you making things worse. And it's time for you to step out and go to go do something else. Where does that leave you?
Darius Norell
Yeah. Lovely. So another question. Thank you. And this is what I'm talking about getting the energy of, I feel you. And so I want to change firstly, that you see, the worst case scenario is hearing that what I'm doing is not wanted, was making things worse. To me, these are all good scenarios. You're getting data that you can then do something about, like the worst case scenario is not being in the conversation, not knowing or being afraid to ask or kind of whatever it is that's in the way, or not having someone that's going to tell you I mean, you could do all the work of asking, right, you maybe got someone else, it doesn't even give you that information. Right. But that is the worst case scenario. Does that make sense? Really?
Ciaran Keogh
Yeah it does. I think what you're getting at is that even bad, bad news or bad feedback is better than -
Darius Norell
It's not bad news. That's what I'm, that's what I'm saying. So we go get out of the way. Don't want to hear that. It's like, oh, I want to hear that. That's really helpful for me to know. And it may sound paradoxical like, why's this guy so excited about hearing that, like, I'm not wanted or not needed? Well, I'm delighted to know that. Why am I so excited to know that I'm not wanted or needed?
Henry Dewar
What if there's something that you actually think you're good at? Or like say like, you went to university, let's say a degree like in say, like graphic design, and then you went to a graphic design company, and you say, oh, like, here's my, my cereal box, and they're like, This is really bad. You should probably leave like, what do you do then?
Darius Norell
Great. So so why would I be excited to hear that news? I mean, I'm okay. And some people may be like I don't want to hear that right now. I thought I was good, but it's best to go back to my view of myself. But if I can connect to a different place, why would I be excited to hear that?
Todd Wheatland
Because you're not wasting time doing something that you shouldn't be doing?
Darius Norell
Okay? Could be, so that could be one conclusion. Great. What else?
Harry McMullen
In that example, Oh, I thought I was really good at making cereal boxes. Turns out, I'm not. So there's a gap between where I want to be where I am. And if I didn't know that, and I can't, I can't close that gap. I can't get good at making cereal boxes, which is what I want.
Henry Dewar
Yeah. Is this - are you describing a kind of scenario where you think you're good at something? And then you're told you're not? And then you should step down? Or is it something like, you're totally not good, but you could be good? Is like, so because, surely you could improve at something that you're not -
Darius Norell
So so. So this is the point of the conversation. Right? The longer we leave the conversation, the more likely there is there's nothing going to be able to do about it by the time you get the information. Right, because things have gone so far. Like "Henry look. I'm sorry, I should have told you before, like, this isn't working out", you're like, "oh, well, look, I'd love to know, because I can I can change, I can do something differently, like" "I know, but sorry, it's too late now". You're like, "why didn't you tell me before?" and I'm like "Why didn't you ask before?" Right? So there will come a point, if you're not in the conversation, when a decision is gonna get made for you. And then it becomes very difficult. It's not impossible to recover from but it can be difficult to recover from. Versus "let's get in the conversation early about how I'm doing". So if I'm presenting my cereal box, like I'm coming with a commitment and intention, right, very powerful. I want to be great at making cereal boxes to Harry's point. Here's, here's what I've got. Here's what I've understood you're looking for. Here's what I've created in service of meeting what you're looking for. And you get some brutal feedback. "My gosh, like this is the worst I've ever worked with ever seen". And this ties into your point, Ciaran about - and it doesn't matter what the feedback is. Whether it's "positive" quotes, "negative", if you don't have specificity is pretty useless. So saying, "Hey, Ciaran, you're lovely, it's great. Making fantastic contribution." That's not very helpful feedback. "This is the worst box I've ever seen." It's not very helpful feedback. Now, what's interesting is that it doesn't even really matter whether it's negative or positive quotes. Most people don't go towards the feedback. They don't dig in and drill it all. Thank you. Thank you, I'm gonna run out of the room, whatever it is, versus Thank you. What, in your example, currently, what is it that I'm doing, that you're seeing as making a big impact? Right now we're gonna get into some specifics. That becomes actionable. Like, oh, so now I know to continue doing that and do more of that. Most of us, we don't get that feedback of carry on doing this. So hey, Harry, the way you do this is great. I didn't know. I didn't know that was the most valuable thing that I'm doing. Now, I know now, and now guess what that leads to when you know. What does that give you a sense of? certainty? Yeah. Confidence. Yeah. You get a lovely, "Oh, gosh", that part of my brain is questioning all the time. "Am I okay? Am I doing?" I guess it's a natural part of our brains. What was wrong with your brain asking that but like, part of our brain gets to quieten down? Like, oh, I know, this is something that's really valued. I've spoken to someone who sincerely told me this specific thing. Keep on doing that. It's great. Oh, great. I can keep coming back to that. That's one thing I've got that I know I'm doing well. And then we stay with the coalition. Okay, what else? You see what else you say? That can be helpful. That then creates a very lovely platform for a night. And again, I use this phrase inquiries to get specific for that. If you could choose one thing for me to work on that you think would make the biggest difference? What would it be? Right, so inviting? What's the biggest gap? What's the biggest opportunity that you see for me to grow and develop? To me, it's a very lovely question to ask someone. Can you your mind, you will get some very actionable feedback. Does it seem that way to you, Ciaran?
Ciaran Keogh
Yeah, I think so. I'm still wondering what else you could do with that? Or?
Darius Norell
So you say do with that. So let's imagine you ask me the question.
Ciaran Keogh
Yeah.
Darius Norell
I give you an answer. What would you do with it?
Ciaran Keogh
I don't know. I'd take on-
Darius Norell
You asked me the question. I say, Okay. The biggest, biggest opportunity I see for you is planning your day. Right? You just spent 30 minutes at the beginning of the day doing X,Y,Z like we did that I think you've doubled the results we're getting. What would you do with that information?
Ciaran Keogh
I'd try and put that into practice.
Darius Norell
Right? So is there a question? Cos you say oh, what would I do with it - like for me that feels like really clear, yeah. But put into practice, maybe see how it would come back and say, Look, am I doing this, like I don't seem to be doubling my results? You said I'd double my results, I think I'm doing it. Or I'm finding I'm not doing it or whatever. So we then begin an actionable phase. Todd, I'm going to come to you in a moment to kind of - because I want to, this energy of, "I want to do something with these conversations" like, great, me too. I'd love you to be doing something these conversations. And it seems like there's gaps between applications. So what does that answer that gap for you?
Ciaran Keogh
I think so when it's when the answer you get is like, what specifics of what you've been doing well, or when they suggest, would they suggest things to you that you can do
Darius Norell
And how are you going to get specifics?
Ciaran Keogh
By asking them?
Darius Norell
Yeah. And I'm gonna suggest none of you are asking. I don't think any of you are asking, and none of you asked me with any specificity. Is that Is that fair? To say no. Yeah, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Great. So you've set up a lovely Alex, way of asking in a, in a different context. And I think we've shown that's a really powerful process. So in this work context, no. So then the flip side, which is what you're saying, like, okay, so this, this is the worst cereal box I've ever seen. Great. Okay, so what would I do I first want to check in, what's the goal? Like, did I get the goal, right? Can I just check? You know, and if you're lucky, and fortunate, you've got someone on the other side is available for a conversation about this. Right? So it might be like "It's the worst cereal box I've ever seen." Your time's up? Right. So it could be. That's feedback also. But let's imagine he also is available for conversations, incredibly generous thing to be available for this conversation. Okay, so I'm coming with the cereal box. Let me check in. I had the goal as this. Right? Is that accurate? Yeah, great. Okay. So we are trying to achieve this thing with the cereal boxes. It's got to be this size, or it's got to be whatever it is. Okay, great. So, I'd love to understand, when you look at my cereal box, like, what's the gap between this cereal box? Because I was looking at it, thinking this is a slam dunk? Well, I've hit everything you wanted. Right now for hopefully, you know, or maybe not, maybe so you know what? Yeah, I'm realising now, as we talk through that goal. Again, this cereal box doesn't meet that standard, does it? What I'm seeing is this, this and this, what else? Where are you else? Are you seeing the gap? Right? Well, you could be genuinely that does happen. I think it's relatively rare, but it can happen. I thought was the most beautiful pseudobulbs ever. And then there's just a big gap between what you're seeing and understanding and what, where someone else's, it's also possible. And so then, you know, there's learning to happen. And that's where you can then when you've got that data, then you can check in with yourself. Do I want to do what's needed to close that gap? Right? And the answer might be no, like, I don't care enough about this was not important. Or it might be you know what, this is really important to me, I want to become the greatest set of design books and books design in the world that may take this on board and do version two. Does that play so far? Yeah. Now, there's another piece, which is really important. Which is just because you have feedback doesn't make it true. I suppose it is the worst cereal box in the world. Okay, that's a view. I want to get accurate. What are you seeing? I wanna learn from what you're seeing, how you're perceiving? Well, I don't think anyone's gonna like this. That's a horrible colour for someone to have on the cereal table in the morning. Okay. That means, "let me let me take that on board. Okay, how could I find out if that's accurate? Is anyone saying that? Let me sense check that. Here's what I thought: this lurid paint was a lovely thing to go in contrast with your fried egg", I don't know, whatever it is, right? We just, we can then come to our own view about you know what, I think there's something in this thing. Maybe it's never been seen before. Maybe it's never been done before. Maybe that sounds out of date, maybe it was changed. If that was true, whatever it was. So we can b,e we're not just going to take that feedback and accept it. We can be really engaged in like Am I really getting what he's saying, okay, so many of us have different view, I want to go this way, I want to go that way. That's fine. But we can be really investigating. So we can come to a conclusion about how we want to adapt change, whether we want to, and for me, you can probably hear like this is such an exciting, freeing thing to be in that continual process of growing, learning, adapting, shifting. I suppose I'm offering that to you as a way of living that I'd love to do kind of inviting you into or claiming, hey, this is a, you know, this is a way to fulfil the intentions that you have fulfil the potential that you have. And I think I'm also claiming that the reverse is true that without that process, your ability to grow and develop is really limited. Because at the heart of it is being in that conversation about, you know, I'm doing something with an intention of getting results. How are those results matching up versus both? What's what I'm intending and what's needed and wondered. If we're not in that conversation, and really deeply that conversation, then your ability to grow and develop, it's going to be really restricted? Does that seem accurate?
Alexandra Purpura
Yeah.
Darius Norell
Nodding. So Todd, you, you were asking this question about okay, what do I do? Practically? What do I do? So where are you now? Is there a question that's coming up for you having heard all this?
Todd Wheatland
So if I, if I get like positive feedback, I guess I don't really know what to do with that. Though I'm quite good at being complacent.
Darius Norell
Great. So lovely. So thank you for the honesty and knowing yourself. So I think so you asked me a question. I say, "Todd, you're doing great." What do you do next?
Todd Wheatland
I don't know what to do about it. I just sorta like, take it. And so that's cool. I just move on.
Darius Norell
So is there anything you've heard me say that would lead you to do something else? When you hear Hey, Todd, you doing great? Not really no. Okay. Anyone else heard anything?
Alexandra Purpura
What am I doing?
Darius Norell
Great.
Alexandra Purpura
How am I doing?
Darius Norell
Yeah. So you're gonna ask: what is it that you're valuing about my work? Right. What do you get when you asked that question? What there's two, two things that you get, what do you get?
Alexandra Purpura
Specificity?
Darius Norell
Yeah.
Alexandra Purpura
About your abilities? And, and whether you're, what's what's valuable?
Darius Norell
Yeah. What else do you get?
Harry McMullen
A clearer sense maybe of what's needed? So on the one hand, what am I doing that's, that's great, or what am I great at doing? And then the other hand, what's the value of that? Because it's needed.
Darius Norell
Okay, so so we get a connection to, to need? Yeah, so I get a fuller idea of why it's valuable. What's valuable about it. Lovely. What else do you get? So there's another level, right? So there was an item here. And I'm wondering what I'm doing that's valuable. Well, guess what I'm coming with a bunch of ideas of what I think is valuable. I have some thoughts. Before I ask the question of what I think is valuable. I asked you, you say there's what you do. This is valuable, that's valuable. And that's valuable. I go great. What else? What am I then left with?
Harry McMullen
Is it possible that some of the things that you okay, my idea was there were like, three things I was doing that was valuable, then you hear that two of them were great. And you know, I imagined that - that other one maybe isn't as valuable as I thought.
Darius Norell
Yeah, isn't that interesting? I thought there was something I was doing that was really valuable that no one's mentioned. So that might be something like, I want to check in on that. Is it just that no one's aware of it? Is it an oversight? Or was it like, yeah, you put a lot of effort into that it's doing nothing for us? Oh, my gosh, thank goodness. Because that was half of my work was doing that thing, and nobody's valuing it. And again, we might be in the inquiry of maybe they're not noticing the value? Or maybe maybe it's like, yeah, it's just not valuable, great. Like I stopped doing it. So I can listen to what's said, and also what's not it to be able to make sense of how I'm doing. So how is it? I want to make sure you know, I'm holding like, I want you to go away satisfied from this conversation. And so I don't know, like a doubt. And because of the doubt in my mind, like, are we talking about the right thing at the right level in a way that's useful and meaningful to you? Like, are you getting what you wanted and needed from this conversation? I just go back to it like it's this is me doing it did for real? Like, I want to know, is this what we've talked about? What I've offered questions on is this what you were wanting and needing, as far as you can tell, and if it's not, that's fine. Again, I want to know, and then let's fill those gaps. That's going to go round. Henry?
Henry Dewar
As far as I can tell, yeah.
Darius Norell
Great. So you're satisfied?
Henry Dewar
Yeah.
Darius Norell
At this point. I'm not saying there's not gonna be other stuff.
Henry Dewar
Yeah.
Darius Norell
But that has been a meaningful conversation that you found valuable. Guess what my next question is? What's gonna be next?
Ciaran Keogh
Why?
Darius Norell
Yeah. What have you found valuable about it? Right. This helps because otherwise, I'm going around nice, warm feeling about all that. It was nice. I actually don't know. So what is it? That's been valuable?
Henry Dewar
I guess just to clarify, because we did talk last session about the, I guess the more specifically the knowing, or being asked to leave or you know, that kind of thing. And so yeah, it gives like more clarity on like, what you actually mean.
Darius Norell
So that depth of okay, what do you mean about being ready to leave? Yeah, I'm not just walking out as soon as I hear something bad. Maybe just going into more detail and subtlety around again, what's what's in that conversation? Yeah. Great. Thank you. Todd?
Todd Wheatland
Yes, definitely, like last I can take from this based on the questions that we asked, but we didn't really like go into like the drive kind of part, I guess, which is something that you haven't done.
Darius Norell
Lovely. Thank you. So do you see how lovely it is to get a really clear request of like, hey, this doesn't feel like this needs to be met. I want to talk about drive. If we have, I missed it. Like it was just not clear to me, like, what's the connection with drive? So if you're in an environment, where what you're doing is wanted and needed, what impact do you think that has on you?
Todd Wheatland
It's gonna make you more motivated. Right?
Darius Norell
Sure. Great. But if you were in a environment where what you're doing doesn't seem wanted or needed, what impact that can have on you? Not gonna want to do, right. So does that provide a connection to this question of like, well, let me get really clear on what's wanted or needed, and how what I'm doing, you know, fits with that. That's naturally going to impact my driver motivation.
Todd Wheatland
Yeah. There's a lot more we could go into it, though. As a start, yeah.
Darius Norell
Go on, say more?
Todd Wheatland
Well, I think there's a bit more to it, because just cos you're needed doesn't mean that you want to do it, I guess.
Darius Norell
So let's check that. Right and again, this is why we're having this conversation. Because I know the answers when this is a live like, Okay, you're challenging, but let's check so. So you're in an environment where what you're doing is wanted and needed. And you're seeing that and you know, that - talk me through the scenario. Because I asked you the question and you said "yeah, my drive and motivation would go up."
Todd Wheatland
Yeah. I think it's if I do feel like I'm doing well, then I'm a lot happier to go into work over there. Like, if I like a few rough days, maybe they might like to find like, not want to set my alarm next day. Yeah. So getting over that maybe.
Darius Norell
So what you're talking about is how do I feel motivated when I don't feel motivated?
Todd Wheatland
Yeah. Okay.
Darius Norell
Is that right?
Todd Wheatland
Yeah.
Darius Norell
Yeah. So, in a way, I'm gonna say don't start from there. I mean, I really want to talk through this point. I think it's so so powerful. So what I mean by that is, next time, you heard me say this before, I don't use an alarm clock. Right. And I haven't used one for 30 years. Because I don't want to stay in an environment where I'm not motivated. Like, if I have to use an alarm clock to get up to get into work, then that's an alarm bell from that's my alarm bell. Right. Oh, my gosh, there's something wrong. And so I use an alarm clock, so I can find out and be aware of or connect to my lack of motivation. Okay, well, what is it about this work? That's missing? I mean, I'm not motivated. And so I want to, I want to know that. And then that'll drive me to the question of, okay, I'm not making this dimension of what's wanted and needed. Let me get clear, can I check is the work I'm doing meaningful as a different way that would be more valuable. I just feel like there's something about the work I'm doing that's not really leading anywhere. So I'm back into that conversation again. Because if I do get clear, I think I'm I'm really happy to change. But if I do get clear that what I'm doing is wanted and needed. That is a powerful source of motivation. Right? And then maybe there's some other feeling and I don't want to call it backup motivation, but it kind of, Hey, I see this as wanted or needed. But this isn't my work to do. Right? That's a totally valid, awesome, but it's coming from a different place of okay, I can see that. I'm feeling this way. I'm feeling something inside me that this is important to me, right, come back to me, and this part of me doesn't feel like it's getting satisfied in this work. So I'm loving that you're valuing my work. I've been in that situation many times people love my loving my work valuing and like, this isn't my work to do. I can do it. I can get really well paid for it. It's just not my work to do. And you know what I mean? I just I don't do it as brilliantly as I do. I would like to be, even if their clients happy, like it's just falling short. And I that's been hard to sustain and I can do it for short periods, but it's hard to sustain over weeks, months years, and then they're going to be better off maybe with even someone is a slightly lower level that actually that is there work to do, and they're gonna grow and be over it and ultimately do a better job over the bottom. So it's totally valid to have that kind of reflection of, hey, this isn't fully satisfying and meeting my needs. And I'm suggesting that the sequencing is let me get into situations where I'm doing work that's wanted and needed, that's a great place to then generate and make choices from, because you've got you can see what you're, you've got this value, and then being bring more of yourself on top of that contradict myself, because yeah, well, maybe it's just an iteration, right? Start with work things important I make a contribution that I get all this still this bit is not satisfied. Great. Okay. How can I refine adjust shifts? So that it's also included? Yeah, how does that connect with your, your sent to you? And so I'm gonna suggest that that lack of motivation is a lot about not being clear about is this wanted or needed. Or, and, and what's important to me, and that's what to do, like, I don't really know, then then that's going to lead to I don't know, sort of lack of connection. But if you're clear about what's important to you, or you don't have something, then that means you can get into a powerful relationship where the motivation is just going to come. So I would honour the lack of motivation. Not sorry, dwell in it, but kind of just Yeah, okay, this is a helpful sign, my wish for you is that you're in roles where you're feeling motivated. Not learning to dull yourself to the others is just not interesting. But I gotta force myself. So let me put this regime, which means I can get out of bed and get, you know, I don't think that's, that's not the vision I have for your lives. Like, that's your life, you can live it how you want to live. But I think there's an opportunity to get to be motivated in the work we're doing. Let's come comes back to the point you're making likes about passion, like, the work I'm doing is not the biggest thing in my life, or it's not the main thing, or there's something else which is, which is different, but I'm in a job from, like, I need to answer money, I need to live I've got these other visions and dreams and passions, which I'm really clear on. And I've got work that I need to work. How can I find the connection between what's important? How we're going to grow and develop, and what's needed and wanted? And so just in that inquiry of, okay, well, what can I do that there's a, there's a match there. And sometimes we might be in situations where we're doing work for a period of time, that's not there's not a lot of match. Right? And so we hold on to okay, this is the bridge, right? I need to get some platform, I need to get some money to be able to get myself some choice, right? So step. So that would be the way of framing, okay, the purpose of this is to get to this point, we just get really clear, okay, I need to save this much money, whatever it is for this period of time, because it enables, you know, a bigger intent. And that's, that's a very pragmatic reality. That danger is that we stay in that thing. We just accept it for three months or six months. And then we end up there five years later, 10 years later, and life's gone by and what was that about? So I'm coming back to us getting into that question of what's wanted or needed. Specifically, what is it I'm doing invaluable? And the other question again, what's the one thing like if I could change one thing or just one thing? What's the one thing you would have me do different? Yes, good. Yeah. Okay, Casey?
Casey White
Yeah, I guess for me, it's like, if I'm not completely, like motivated, like, there's like a certain sort of like, a guilt that maybe at every point I should be doing something that I'm like completely passionate about otherwise it's not fair on others or myself.
Darius Norell
Yeah. Thank you for that. So I might be in a team of people other people seem more committed, more excited, more energised. I don't think we bring the same level of energy commitment, excitement.
Casey White
Yeah.
Darius Norell
And so that's a reflection of, "am I letting the team down?"
Casey White
Yeah.
Darius Norell
I mean, honestly, my reaction is like you might be. Right, so let go of the guildt and just face into "Yeah, might be." And we want to bring this quality of curiosity. Like whatever we're getting so excited about out. Right? So you might start asking, "hey, where do you get your energy from doing this job? What do you seem really into this? Like what's How are you energised or committed to it and excited about it?" So we can start to get curious. And you might find things and discover things through that. But then what has you be energised and excited? Again, knowing what's important to you, what is it? And a lot of people because they haven't done that work, right, there's nothing they find very exciting. So it's just kind of how my life is. So that's why that inquiry that work compared to what's your work? Okay, let me find out what's meaningful to me. What's important to me? Then a whole world opens up of "Oh, wow, now I can connect that to the work I'm doing. Because now I know that I can see how this is also true." Or you see, like, "oh, my gosh, I'm in the wrong job. Like, this is what it's got nothing to do with what's important to me," then no wonder I'm not very excited or energised. Can you see that?
Casey White
Yeah.
Darius Norell
And so not asking for an answer. But all the content? How clear? Is it to what's meaningful or important to you?
Casey White
No, I think that's something I'd have to think about. Yeah.
Darius Norell
So on a scale of zero to 10. So 10 is like, I'm totally clear what's important to me. what's meaningful to me and zeros? I haven't given it much consideration. What number would you give yourself?
Casey White
Like a five, sort of in the middle about.
Darius Norell
okay, so that would sound like there's work to do. And I'm gonna suggest that pay big dividends. A, in your whole life, but also in your work in terms of levels of motivation, because you have some clarity about how, what you're what you're doing is connected to what's important to you. For natural source of energy. Does that make sense?
Casey White
Yeah.
Darius Norell
Okay, Ciaran.
Ciaran Keogh
So we still on drive?
Darius Norell
We're on anything. You know, has this conversation been satisfying? That was the that was the energy minister like it's like, extended checkouts of was does this was this useful? Was it wanted or needed? Is there anything missing that you still want to get that we haven't covered?
Ciaran Keogh
Okay. No, I liked it. And I felt like I got more from this one, then from the last one is more sort of concrete ideas and things to do. Great. Is just got me thinking about like, driver motivation, as well. Again, you kind of just mentioned it a minute ago, but how do you find out what what up passionate in Oregon? Just what would be a good? What would be a good? Good fit? Just what you'd feel the most comfortable? In? How do you? How do you find that out?
Darius Norell
So, so great, great question. I'm gonna get an answer to it. So all the things that you notice in your whole life, like is there anything that you feel that you notice? Oh, yeah, I feel more energised and excited about that, or things that are kind of that feels like a bit of a drain? Or I don't really look forward to that. When I ask you for what, what but like, do you notice there's a difference? Yeah. Okay, great. So that is a very powerful entry point. Right? So it's like you already know all those things that my heart and being response to I find energising? And those things that I don't, right, so we're starting from where you are, right, we could, okay, how do I develop and grow, and maybe there's things which are incongruent, but we just start with, Oh, my energy goes towards this. I like being around lots of people. I don't really like being around lots of people, but I like working on databases. I manage guys. Like I love databases. Oh my gosh, great. Most people don't like them, my energy goes up. Okay. There's not a right or wrong about it. It's just a noticing my energy goes down. If I have loads of admin to do, like, that's not you know, other people love it. Great, great, like everything all the tidy. And so we all have different things, start points of energy going up energy going down. And I think sometimes we don't pay enough attention to that right as a start point. Right, we can then look at maybe how they get in the way, right? That's a different context was but so that that's, and then we could look at results that we want to see them how I love it when when I see this happen for somebody, or when this happens, and this becomes meaningful to me. I'm just picking generic things, but there's big animals, right? So people love nature and connection. Like I love seeing a dog rescued. Okay, great. Well, that's talking about what that might lead. And there's all sorts of ways and things we can do to help make that happen. Right, or does that? Is that helpful or like that since like, January are things that could be a totally useless answer, but sounded kind of nice, but I don't really know what to do with that. Is that helpful?
Ciaran Keogh
Yeah, it is. And that's something I'd like to look more into sort of I guess, I guess just getting more specific about now how you kind of start that search?
Darius Norell
Totally. What I think that gap is, and again, you can correct me is, I would love you to come to me saying, "here are the things which energise me, here are the things we're streaming", what I'm claiming that's relatively accessible. We don't need to do a whole big year long inquiry, just just noticing through the day "oh this energises, like when this happens, that's, that's feels great for me, when this happens, like it de-energises" right? And just realise that's unique to you. Everyone else is reacting differently. So you've got your own profile, and just keep it keep a record of like, okay, these are the things which are energises. These are the things which are drains. Right. Now, I think the whole debate is then okay, how do I translate that into an opportunity? Yeah, I'm available for that conversation. Okay. The first bit you have to do, right, I'm, and I'm saying I'm claiming you're able to do there's work to do, but you're able to do that. This next piece, there may be some skill conversation about okay, how do I translate all of this into something or how would I go about making sense of what such a person would then do? Does that does that make sense? Yeah, that's so yeah, if you want to, if you want to have that conversation, I'm up for it. But you'll have done that work of "these are energisers, these are drains." And yeah, maybe some inquiry according to what's important to you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Listen on Other Platforms:
Spotify - Apple Podcasts - Google Podcasts
Amazon Music - YouTube
