#20. Gratitude
“Most people listening to this: there’s a huge amount to be grateful for…”
What happens when we take a moment to connect with gratitude? That’s the question Darius and producer Harry are discussing this week, as well as expressing gratitude to the people in your life, taking power from vulnerability and noticing the things in your life that you already have. Sometimes What’s Your Work? is about making changes and trying new things. But what have you already got to draw on? And how can you share it?
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Darius is joined by producer (and writer of these show notes - thanks for reading!) Harry. You can connect with me on LinkedIn @Harry McMullen.
Like this format? We previously recorded a conversation on the topic of New Beginnings which you can listen to here.
Want to practice internal gratitude? Read our piece on connecting with what you’re already resolved about here.
As we said in the podcast, thank you for listening to the What’s Your Work podcast. We’re grateful for every listen we get. If you want to connect with us, there are many ways to do so. Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music or watch the full episodes on YouTube. We also post clips and written content every week on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn and YouTube, as well as right here on our website.
Audio mix by Hula & Co Music.
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Intro
Harry McMullen
Hello, and welcome to this edition of what your work. My name is Harry. I'm the producer and today's guest on the podcast. And today I'm bringing in this question around gratitude. I had an experience recently of expressing gratitude. And I kind of wanted some help processing, what I was doing, the results that I got, how I feel about it now. And I language that around the practice of gratitude, I want to practice gratitude. And I want this to be this regular thing that I do. And what we actually ended up talking about, for a lot of the conversation was how we express gratitude. And what's really happening when we reach out to another person and offer them something awesome this thing. And, yeah, what gets created as a result of it, how powerful it can be, why we might do it, and something really dramatically shifted for me that I'm that I'm really grateful for. And then we get into that a little bit as well talking about, you know, how to express that to someone and be really clear. And yeah, how much detail we might want to give. So I'm not gonna give you any more detail than that. I'm going to encourage you to take a breath, and then get stuck in and have a listen to our conversation and see what connections come up for you.
Conversation
Harry McMullen
Hello, welcome to this episode of What's your work and have no fear Darius Norell is here. The two of us kind of in conversation today. I am bringing as we did in the previous episode, I'm bringing camera inquiry topic for us to discuss and something that's on my mind is that when we last did this format, Darius, I was like you said to me, I love that you have a clear, clear question. And I kind of the energy of a clear request is there's a really helpful one as well. I think I've got another clear question, which I'm excited to talk about. How are you this morning?
Darius Norell
Well, I'm pleased to hear that. Because I think it is so it changes a lot when someone's coming with something that's clear for them as kind of this is something I'm grappling with wrestling with curious about. So that immediately has my energy go up, like oh, great love to hear. Love to hear about that and see what emerges from from a conversation that so yeah. We'll see.
Harry McMullen
That's great. That's gonna ask if you wanted any further ado, but let's, let's go ahead without further ado. And so I wanted to connect in this episode with the idea of gratitude. You and I are working together on a project last year, where we were doing some live sessions. And you were quite intentional about setting the agenda for those sessions around that time. And you did a session on today we're connecting with gratitude. And that's what we're going to do. And I remember being part of that session. And having this really kind of warm, fuzzy feeling that felt great. I really enjoyed kind of the experience. And I think I missed or I didn't quite connected. What's the value of this as a practice becoming really intentional about this as a practice. And I had an experience recently where I've been trying to get in the habit and then the practice of gratitude and recognizing it and expressing it to people in a way that sincere and I wasn't sure what to do with the energy I kind of created in this experience. So my question is, kind of why did you want to bring that for the session so intentionally and what's the value of it as a practice?
Darius Norell
Hmm, so yeah, let's do some more digging around you bringing that and then let's get into answering that question. So what? What else do you remember about it? So you talked about having a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling kind of what what else do you remember about?
Harry McMullen
I remember there was an invitation at the end to go away and You connect with someone and have a conversation with them to the effect of this is what you mean to me. And then we would debrief that as a practice, kind of the next time around. And then I maybe wasn't there for the next one, I don't remember it, I don't remember the kind of debrief of it.
Darius Norell
So let's let me connect to an experience I've just had along those lines, which is, you know, I turned 50 on the weekend. And very unexpectedly my sister had put together a video from people saying all sorts of lovely things. And I don't know why it was so unexpected, because I've done a bunch for other people. And I just, I didn't, I had just not thought it was happening for me, anyway. And afterwards, she said, I was like, Thank you, I know how much work those things are away both to chase after people and to put it all together, and so I was just hugely appreciative of the work she'd done. And then she sent me messages next days, like, oh, so normally those people only see those things after you've died. And isn't it nice to hear them while you're alive? But yeah, it is. And so letting people know what you mean to them? I think is such a beautiful thing. And it's so easily not done. And I heard from many people who I've known for many years, say things they hadn't said so explicitly before, or maybe at ever. And it was really lovely. And for me, it wasn't meaningful experience. And I noticed that oh, yeah, I had discounted, you know, a lot of what had happened in my life had just like, sort of given it 00 value, and not not that it wasn't important at the time. It's, like, forgotten about or, and so it was good to remember and connect with, oh, yeah, these are relationships I have, and ways that people have have noticed hearing how people are holding me and, and connecting to maybe support I'd given them or experiences we've had together. And so I think we can talk about whether that's gratitude or not. But I think that thing of letting someone know how much you mean, they mean to you is so huge. And if I recall correctly, because this was a while back. I remember one of even remembering wondering whether this was this may have been a contribution exercise, but this is what somebody did, right, which was a daughter rang her father, and parents were separated. She was a little bit maybe estranged from him, I don't know, or at least not in regular contact and rang him up. To let him know what he meant to her. And it is really moving even hearing about it afterwards heard her her telling of that story. And to me, it's just so bizarre because it's so simple. It's basically free. And it can be so powerful. I think so many of us are kind of wondering, you know, are we okay to people like us? I don't know, just some level of background anxiety or concern about it. So that's a rather long rambling response to your question, but that's I think it is I think I think that that particular thing of letting people know what they mean to you is is is both easy and super important and maybe because easy we don't do it but I think it's such a lovely thing.
Harry McMullen
I mean all I know for me, I'm not sure if this is where I'm at the moment but I know I've had the story in my head previously of well, they already know what they mean to me or they already know how well regarded they are and had that kind of demonstrated Oh no, this is a real shock and surprised as someone who I thought was walking around with all this kind of confidence or just this clarity about Yeah, this is how people hold me.
Darius Norell
Yeah, yeah, I think that's such a it's such a I'm gonna use the word cop out but not I don't mean that in a pejorative sense, but it's so easy to think oh, you're they already know. Okay, tell them and see. And even if they do already know tell them again. It's It's It's lovely. Oh, But does that does that speak to what you what you had in mind around gratitude or part of it? Or how you can even those.
Harry McMullen
It feels like it's connected? And I think my question is, I wonder if maybe it's a flawed question even. But my question is coming from I had an experience recently where I expressed gratitude to somebody, and it came from a heartfelt place. And it was real, it was part of a relationship, that means a lot to me. And I was definitely partly doing it from a place of where I wanted to practice, right? Like, I want to do this because I want to be somebody who does this. Because it's, it's going to be a good thing. It's a good contribution that I can make. And I think I didn't, and still don't fully understand what it is I'm doing when I when I do that. And so I when I expressed this thing to this person, it was, like well received, and it was lovely. But I did feel that there was like this energy that created between us, I felt really powerful. And I also felt maybe a little bit irresponsible, like, I didn't know what I was doing when I when I created that because I wasn't as intentional as I would like to be about about doing it, you know?
Darius Norell
There's something I'm missing in your description let me let me play back the different pieces, then you might you might notice something which was you were conscious of doing it as a practice. You did it, it seemed to have a positive impact and was well received. And then something about an energy getting created that you didn't know what to do with that was maybe quite strong. And that you may have even thought irresponsible around. So give it give me this list, explore that piece, what would be irresponsible about it, like what's the what's what's the potential?
Harry McMullen
I'm seeing more and more kind of, and I've seen this actually, in a coaching context recently, just how powerful it can be to to connect with someone on a really deep way, coming from a really real place can be really powerful, like can have a great experience, like how, I didn't know how much I meant to this person. That's so beautiful. And there's a flipside to that, which is Oh, like that, when when a certain person says something to me, I really receive it in a way that's damaging, or harmful, I think entering into a space where we're not talking about the weather, or what we both watched on TV, but about what we mean to one another is really vulnerable, and really powerful. And I think can be really beautiful. And, and can be really dangerous, right? Or it can have like a really adverse effect on someone's life. And I don't think that that happened in this experience, but I'm conscious that I could have that power.
Darius Norell
What's what's the potential effect?
Harry McMullen
To play into? Someone's really deep insecurities, right? I thought that nobody could see this about me. And then and then this person named it right, or I was really reliant on this story that I had about my life. And then it got challenged by something somebody said. And now I don't know what to do. Right. And, yeah.
Darius Norell
So that sounds like something very different. I mean, related, but very different to me. So to me, if we're talking about appreciation and gratitude, that that you've described as I'm going to fall into that.
Harry McMullen
Okay, I mean, can I really help with any facts when how I think they're connected? Well, I'm thinking about, yeah,
Darius Norell
please.
Harry McMullen
Kind of the, the connection between people when it becomes kind of a heart to heart connection. I think it's very, it's very powerful, and also, I think, is a vulnerable thing. And so I think that there's there's potential in that space for to be heard in the same way, there's potential to be moved, right. So I might come with this really clean intention of oh, I want to connect with you on this level. I think it'd be really, like beautiful or positive, but actually, I'm wading around in waters that are that are vulnerable, right? And I could say the wrong thing or say something that, you know, it's triggering or activating for someone and not now I'm doing it.
Darius Norell
Yeah, so I'm going to say no, well, I don't know. I'm sort of half saying this is a great conversation. So not saying you asking. So something you said just now was quite revealing, which is how you're coming to what the conversation is, which maybe then comes back Today, what is this practice we're doing? So it might, it might be that there's something to distinguish around what's coming first. So what I heard you say is like, Oh, if I'm having a heart to heart connection, then, you know, there's openness there, there's vulnerability there. And maybe I could stray into saying something that would really go deep and be hurtful. So that sounds accurate. And that's not the start point for the conversation. But to me, the start point of the conversation is I want to appreciate acknowledge, it says something positive. From where I'm sitting about my experience of you, in some way, shape, or form. And my intention is to let you know that, you know, because it's in my heart to share and this feels, I want to let you know what you mean to me. Right now. It doesn't mean it's necessarily accurate, even right, it's just but it's, but it's, I'm going to share something positive about hey, when I'm with you. Like someone said, like one of the things someone said on the on the video was when I'm with you, you bring the best out of me. That was their experience, to me is a lovely thing to say. Now it's difficult for me to know how I would get hurt by that, right? Like whether whether it was even accurate. And I was just like, oh, that's you're saying you're having a positive experience as a result of your sense of perception of me or our relationship or whatever it was like, and you're you're just letting me know that like, hey, I want to let you know. So it's just a gift, right? I've just, the intention is coming from a place of gifting, some beautiful piece, something beautiful that you hope is beautiful. So with that frame, and context is, to me really hard to create harm or damage, like if that's our genuine intention. And we're genuinely reporting on like, this is my experience. So let's, let's pause there. Does that seem true to you? Or can you see a situation
Harry McMullen
Really true to me? And it's opening up something else for me about what maybe is going on in my question? Yeah.
Darius Norell
Let me go a bit further, and then come come to you. So now, when we do that, we might be opening up a heart to heart channel of communication, right, but that becomes a byproduct. And one of the reasons it becomes powerful is like maybe we're connecting at a heart level. And with this container around, yeah, the purpose of this channel is from positive sharing, contributions, acknowledgement. That sealed seems to me very safe. And and if I also want to be really safe, I could just ask for permission, which is here love to share something. But what you mean to me? Is that, okay, I'm gonna get respect. But there's no as far as I know, no longer just have an internal like, well, I know, you mean a lot to me. So that to me, is going to result in a positive experience for you. And for the other person. Only once a 99% of the time I to the extent it's possible for someone have a negative experience, I don't think there's much responsibility to hold on. Why wouldn't think on my side, as I chose a really bad time, or I was clear that I didn't want it or whatever, or, but then I might be. And sometimes when people find a bit uncomfortable receiving positive feedback, like all that, but that's, you know, that seems a pretty safe activity, and so wants me to stop trying to force it on them. So, does that feel complete for that day? I know, you've got another question. Now.
Harry McMullen
I don't think I have another question either. So much is a reflection on heart? Here's how I'm processing that with what my original question was right? Or what my kind of feeling is around, it may be dangerous, or it may be risky, or, or there's a responsibility that, which is my original kind of question, or what prompted my original question was, Oh, I'm not sure what I'm doing with this as a practice. So there's something in my system that's not fully clean as I'm, as I'm doing it, right. And I think where I went to that place of, well, it's this heart to heart connection. I think there's because there's that discomfort around receiving something nice, that gift, and because it's not something we often do. I had a discomfort around giving it right. And I wonder if maybe in the giving of it, and then my kind of unresolved Ness about the practice. As much as I'm giving you a gift. I'm kind of asking you in the receiving of it to tell me it was okay. And that's so I'm trying to get something from you. It's not a pure contribution I was making When I was asking, Hey, this is what you mean to me. And also, can you let me know that it's okay that I said that to you, which is, then it stops being this kind of selfless gift that it becomes wanting or needing or expecting something in return. Because I've got this fear and this story around or I might upset you.
Darius Norell
So has anything shifted?
Harry McMullen
I'm holding it in a slightly different frame of, if the intention is to give this as a gift that I don't need to be afraid of, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to do harm by by offering you this. And if I'm not afraid of it, then I can do it without asking for you to tell me it's okay when I did it. So it becomes clean. And it becomes purely generous. I think it was generous. And like when I said that to my friend, she appreciated it. And we had a nice exchange around it. I think that energy that I was describing was I felt, maybe she gave me back. Thank you, that means a lot to me. But she didn't give me back, it was okay, that you did that. And that's kind of what I was asking for. And so that's where I was left, I'm gonna bring this to the podcast, because I feel unresolved about it all kind of weird about it. I think actually, it's to do with me and my story around, I need someone else to tell me what I'm doing is okay. I don't have that deep trust around this, that it was okay. Or that I am okay.
Darius Norell
Hey, I mean, here's another like, this may not be accurate, right? But this bandhas may be a dimension of it, which is the potential for manipulation. Right? If I'm not being sincere, and or genuine, or I'm sort of being artificial thing, Oh, I get what I supposed to do with some gratitude today, I'll just do it, you know, and then maybe the personal like me, or we have a nice experience that, you know, there's, so if that dimension is coming in, then there's not, there's not a clean intention. And that might then also kind of bring in that oh, is it okay, that I kind of played with you a little bit there. Right, or, you know, sort of, even though it's a nice experience, like I've given you something or done something to you. That's, that's, there's a sort of echo of that, that I'm picking up in potential let go of that. I'm picking up on what you're saying. Because that does.
Harry McMullen
Yeah, I think I'm reflecting on it. Like, it's led me to this conversation, right, which is going to be good, ultimately. But I'm partly thinking it was just kind of a shame. Because the prompter, I'm gonna reach out and say something was really pure and really sincere. It started in such a great place. Because it was rooted in, in recalling this quality that my friend has. And then in the doing of it, I thought, oh, no, no, you know, it's, it's, you know, it's like, late in the evening. And she works early in the mornings. And she probably already knows anyway, and then it was like, no, come on, like, we're going to do this practice of gratitude. It's a good thing. And we don't tell each other enough and blah, blah, blah. And so it started so my story got into what was happening, and it stopped being this thing. That's, yeah, what it is, which is a gift, right? I bought a loaf of bread for someone yesterday and said, I don't want money for it, that's a gift. And that was really clean. And really, I felt really nice. And it wasn't about me feeling nice. It was about doing it right. And it was done. And this thing of this practice of gratitude, I think for me thinking of it as a gift that that really shifts something and makes me feel really makes me feel really quite free
Darius Norell
so it sounds great. I sort of see that sense that and and wanting because anything else to tease out and then may not not for you necessarily but for people listening I wonder if there's anything to tease out around well, what what is the line or what's helpful to know about it or not? I can't I can't tell but I definitely get how coming with that frame. Yeah, creates greater freedom and spaciousness and ease and sort of protection and like okay, well let me just do that. And then becomes very simple. And, yeah, I guess maybe maybe my own inquiries, okay. It's all good. If I noticed these other bits coming in these other stories coming in are like, Oh, but it's such a nice feeling for me. And then, you know, like, that becomes the motivation. Like then what? So it might be okay, well, just don't say anything at that moment. Like, just let that moment pass and allow, you know, find a different way to connect. Or, yeah, reconnect with the original intention of, oh, you know what? I know I appreciate it. When someone does that for me. Let me do that for someone else. Just not needing anything back. So, yeah, that's what, that's what comes to me. Yeah. It's a good, good question. So yeah, anything else you want to ask about? About it all the question or?
Harry McMullen
Yeah, I think just to reconnect with the question, the original question, as I phrased it, which was to do with the value of, of practicing contribution. Yeah, I'm seeing it. Now as practicing gratitude, I should say. I'm seeing that as, as, you know, there's maybe not enough of it. In the world. It's not something that we typically do. And there's an opportunity to create a world where that happens more by doing it. Right. From a from a place that's sincere, that's heartfelt, it's kind of clean. And that's a gift. And we were talking about the podcast in a recent episode of, you know, it's about create, it's about ease, right, offering ease, because maybe not enough in the world. I think, maybe enough connecting with gratitude. And in the same way, and if I have a chance to make an impact at all, it's it's an adding a little bit more of that to the world. So I think that's the value as I'm seeing it.
Darius Norell
So that Yeah, so I think there's, I think there's two dimensions, because I need to work practicing gratitude. I hear you really talk about expressing gratitude. Yeah. And I think that's different. Okay, so it's a form of practicing gratitude. And it's one to me, that's one form versus a practice which might be internal of I'm grateful for my health. And I'm grateful for all the support I've got around me I'm grateful for so just appreciating the conditions and circumstances and people because most people listening to this is a huge amount to be grateful for, even though we might not feel like it or it might not be so obvious, or we might need some really difficult conditions. For most people, there's a huge amount still to be grateful for. And certainly if you stop comparing our lives to the to most of human history and the conditions that most people have had to live in we're living in the most incredible conditions. Like that's that could be something to be hugely grateful for, to being born in this time. And so that's a different practice which doesn't involve anybody else. That's the practice of connecting to what we have feeling taking care of helping move out of a not enough mindset scarcity fear to wow I've got I've already got I would have been given so much already got so much. Which also leads to ease and I think I think that'd be the intention of this eat. So there's a different it's a different dimension to one that one's Yeah, I guess once the internal struggle trying to work out what the delineations might be but so what is certainly one's internal reflection for I've already got the other would be a way of I guess more of an external expressing gratitude.
Darius Norell
Sharing that with someone else.
Harry McMullen
Yeah, I think for me, I'm bringing the word practice in because it's connected to me to something that we've talked about in terms of seeing opportunities in the world, depending on what kind of frame you're you're holding. So for example, I think you've said to me before, like being prescribed glasses for the first time, we're certainly seeing a world full of people wearing glasses as if they weren't there before. Similarly, you know, if I've got to, if I want to practice, okay, I want to move my body more just going through and seeing an opportunity. Oh, I could take the stairs there. And think talking about practicing gratitude in the same way of seeing an opportunity to go, wow, that like, the sun being out today is a beautiful thing. And it was there. It was there already, but now I've got this frame of I'm in the habit of noticing things I'm grateful for. And maybe that doesn't involve expressing gratitude to people. And sometimes that's just an internal thing as you say.
Darius Norell
Yeah, and I think I think that, you know, in its purest form, it's, it's being grateful even when the sun's not out, right? Like, it's sort of it's, there's so much to be appreciative of that mostly we don't give any attention to that we just take for granted that are either just real anomalies. But we just because there are normal, we just, we just don't don't give any particular value to So, just reorienting to wow, you know, this is incredible. This, this, the technology that we have these all I mean, they're all boring things in was, Oh, I already know. But really, when we start inquiring into it, and if we can really get Wow, everything here is temporary. And at the moment, look what I've looked at, I have access to look what's in front of me. It's, it's can be a lovely source of great. Let's take a slightly deeper and kind of okay, not everything's terrible, but everything's falling apart. Look what I already have. And that's yeah, that's how I hold it anyway.
Harry McMullen
That's great. I'm gonna, I'm gonna suggest that I did about you. I feel really complete at this point.
Darius Norell
Great. Let's Yeah, this is your your session on that, in the sense of you brought something that was alive. And yeah. It's good to notice like, oh, yeah, great. I got what I needed.
Harry McMullen
Great. Well, I yeah, I introduced us. And this episode. So I think I'll take us out as well by saying, thanks very much. To you. And say thanks very much to me for bringing this question. Grateful for myself for for bringing it in. And thank you, to everybody listening. Yeah, I'm going on this journey with us.
Darius Norell
So let me let me ask you a final question then. As a practice, like, what are you appreciating about this conversation? Like, what are you grateful for what's?
Harry McMullen
Yeah. I'm noticing that something that came up, which was not in my head, when I brought in the original question, was this need that I have to be okay. Right. I was asking for that in in the gift that I was giving. And I was asking for that by doing that by saying, Okay, if this podcast is what we're going to talk about. And I have a really different, really different place around it now just for having talked about it. I feel like I am okay. And the way forward seems clear for me in a way that it didn't before. And I am I am literally sitting differently, and I'm breathing differently. And that's, you know, and I'm grateful for that.
Darius Norell
Too, you're grateful for having noticed and brought the question. And having listened and being able to make sense of something? That was a question?
Harry McMullen
Yeah, I think there was some heat there. Like it didn't, I kind of had an idea of how I thought the conversation would go and how I thought I would be in it. And then actually, I felt a little bit challenged and a little bit Oh, actually, I What do I mean by that, and I did have to dig a little bit deeper. It wasn't easy. The process of it. So I'm glad and grateful for the way that I stuck with it. And I'm grateful for the way that you guided me through it as well. Which is why I'm saying thank you to you as well.
Darius Norell
So I this is a bit a bit old, but I'm going to do it anyway to be more specific, what are you appreciative of in me, because that's, that's part of the key of the practice is getting more detail. The more generic we are the less meaningful or impactful maybe not always, but having having the specificity can be really helpful and powerful. So what is it that you're appreciating?
Harry McMullen
Me I'm, I'm appreciating the way that you listen to what I was bringing played it back for me to make sure that you were understanding it, and then challenged it and offered me a different point of view, and checked in with me. Is that making sense? Let's pause there and see, you know, does that connect for you just feel like it's related to your question. Does it make sense Do you want to push back and challenge me? You really felt like you were really active in the conversation with how are you having it? And felt like you had a feeling the whole time of Yeah, I maybe I was projecting this but I have the feeling that you trusted that I could I could get there or I could go through the conversation with you like my potential was was high to you. You had to dismiss all this as a stupid question or you won't understand this as being beyond your comprehension or whatever you really were with me. And, and your way of doing and being got us to where we are now what got me to where I am now where I'm feeling so much more. Okay, so much more powerful, so much easier. Yeah. And filled with this gratitude. I appreciate how even now you're trying at this more to dig here. Like you can even how you say thank you. There's a there's, there's more, there's more. Yeah, that feels really generous, and you don't have to do it. And here you are doing it. I appreciate that. Thank you.
Darius Norell
So I've ruined your your outro, which was lovely.
Harry McMullen
That's great. It's all good experience. Yeah.
Darius Norell
No, thank you for doing it. I'm grateful for you stepping into a different role. And we hadn't planned it. So I think, yeah, I love the way you stepped up into that. Taking it.
Outro
Harry McMullen
So I'm getting another chance to do the outro. And this usually is where Darius will reflect on the episode and the guests that we've just had, right. And so I'm going to take this opportunity to reflect on being the guest today. But you know, my job is to produce this podcast. And like a lot of people in a lot of jobs, I have those days where I think, is this really worthwhile? What I'm doing, you know, am I making an impact or contribution? doing the job that I do? And thinking about the episode that we've just had? And the question I brought the experience I had, as I said, in the podcast, I feel now so much kind of clearer, stronger, you know, so much more. Okay, so having had this conversation, and you know, we do this as a podcast and not just sitting around talking to each other because we have this just deep trust that by having these conversations and then putting them out to you to listen to, you can make connections for yourself. They help you in your journey, right create more ease and spaciousness, more power, more ownership, you know, whatever it is you're bringing whatever your work is that you're bringing. And and so I think if there's even one person listening to this podcast, on whatever platform, publish it on all the platforms, there's even one person who is also walking away from listening to this, having made some connections to their own life that makes them feel more at ease, more clear, more powerful. More, okay. Then I think the job that I'm doing is really worthwhile. I'm really grateful to you listening. Because now I feel that way. So thank you very much to the What’s Your Work podcast for existing. And thank you very much to you. Because without you, it wouldn't exist. So I'm really grateful to you for listening. And, yeah, I hope there was some connections for you. I hope this was valuable to you. And I hope you'll be back for our next episode. Have a great day.
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