#14. Loving Yourself - Ian King
“One conversation is sometimes all that’s needed”
Ian King’s work is people. Since 2013 he has worked as a coach to help people realise their potential - but the truth is, he’s been supporting people far longer than that. Ian joins the podcast to reflect on his practice, his journey and his purpose in the world moving forward. Themes of the discussion include empowering others, being an agent of change, asking for help and ultimately self-compassion - something that can be in startlingly short supply. Ian shares some of his practices for finding ways to love yourself, as well as the missing pieces of community, camaraderie and learning.
Listen to full episode :
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Ian King is an NLP qualified coach with 25 years’ experience working in client-focused roles, largely with vulnerable adults, people with long-term health conditions and disability, and for the past 13 years with healthcare workers in both the NHS and Independent Sector. He is also a Brilliance coach and student of mindfulness. You can find him at his website https://www.relatedness.co.uk/.
This podcast is about deeply witnessing people, who and where they are, with a clarity and generosity and ease. Can you find an opportunity to do that for someone today? Can you do it for yourself?
For more on the topic of working remotely, and the personal effects that can have, listen to our podcast with Tom Goodwin here.
If you are dealing with a negative self-voice, or feeling stuck inside your own head, check out our blog post on the Inner Voice and how to make friends with it here.
Audio mix and edit by Hula & Co Music.
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Intro
Darius Norell
Welcome to this episode of What's Your Work? Today I talked to Ian King who's a coach who has been supporting young, unemployed people back into work. One of the things that he does, and we really dive deep into exactly what the podcast is all about, what's his work in the world? What's driving him? What's the work that he still sees them do on himself. And now again, really quite heartfelt at times and deep into his story and what's led him into this work. I hope you find it as inspiring to listen to as I did.
Conversation
So, welcome to this episode of What's Your Work? For any of you who've not listened before, my name is Darius Norell. I'm the host of this podcast. And today I'm joined by Ian King, Ian really warm welcome to you. Thank you for joining us today. And in I met over the last question more than a year ago, probably just over a year ago, working on this project to help young unemployed people back into work and you were one of the coaches that's been working on that. So that's that's my experience of you as a as a coach working with young people. I know you've coached others as well. And do other work. My experience of you, just to start with that is someone who's if I was describing is really sincere, a really good hearted kind of wants to do their best for people really committed to people. That's my that's my feeling and impression experience of you.
Ian King
Thank you firstly, yeah, I think that's lovely feedback. And I think that it fits quite comfortably with me. Yeah, you know, I think my businesses, people, and my passion is people. So, you know, over many years in different guises. That's kind of been the fit. So well observed Darius. Yeah.
Darius Norell
And you want to share a little bit more about, you know, what your work entails beyond coaching young, young people into work, what else? You have to?
Ian King
Yeah, sure. So I, my substantive role is as an advisor for trade union, I work with nurses and healthcare support workers. So that is an advice roll. So, you know, quite quite distinct from the coaching function. But I'm also as a bolt on to that I also work in as an organization or coach for that same organization. So so two very different hats. One is with, you know, advice and solutions for nurses who are often facing quite significant adversity. The other is for colleagues who, you know, generally speaking, are looking at issues around career progression, confidence. So it's quite a nice, a nice mix, for me, are quite distinct functions. And then I do some private practice as a coach. And And as you've identified, I was renewed for what best part of a year been doing coaching as part of the kickstart scheme.
Darius Norell
Yeah. So I'd love to hear more about how you find that and we'll kind of dive into that. Anything you're hoping to get from this conversation?
Ian King
I think something that you always get, I always find that I, you know, I learned something about myself, you know, you often don't think about what motivates you or what you know, is intrinsically motivating you to do something. And yeah, we can't always name that. Can we readily until someone probes so? Yeah, I'm hoping that your probe and our are learned something, yeah.
Darius Norell
Great way to come to these comes the right place, right? What's your work is all about that, which is how do we see ourselves and what our work is in the world? And so that's a must. We start there with whatever version comes out first, and we'll we'll say probe into that and then also connected it is kind of what's the work that we're doing on ourselves? What do we see is next for us in our own journey and support us doing our work in the world so How would you describe what's your first go ahead? Yeah, this is what I think my work in the world is or at what am I? What are you up to?
Ian King
What am I up to? I was thinking about this last week. And I think that, you know, I said earlier, my, my work is people. I think that it has been for a long time, and I think it will continue to be I'm evaluating at the moment, longer term, whether that is, you know, what that looks like, you know, there's, I've got a bit of an itch to scratch, possibly, as far as, you know, the what next and that might be becoming a psychotherapist. Not sure, not sure yet, it appeals. But I think, you know, looking ahead, the work will continue to be in some capacity, enabling people to facilitate change, you know, I like to think that when I'm doing my best work, I'm an agent of change for people, you know, enabling them to, you know, gain insight or, or find solutions, and, you know, find that piece that they need, which is very often the confidence and courage to make a change. Yeah, that makes sense.
Darius Norell
It really, really does. I'm curious how it sounds to you, as soon as you hear yourself say those words.
Ian King
Yeah, it. It sounds encouraging to me, and kind of reassuring, I think I was on a journey for many years, where I ended up in roles that I often thought, you know, how on earth have I got here? You know, what, what, right? Have I got to be doing this job? And, yeah, it it's been quite an interesting path, I think, you know, that I think I've had quite a lot of success in different roles, but all of them, the focus has been, you know, this, this piece of helping somebody else to make a change, or ideally, you make an improvement to their life in whatever context that's been. So I certainly want to continue doing that. I think, for me, it feels more and more that the more I do that coaching, and the more I immerse myself in that and challenge myself that that's something I want to grow more of, and move away from advice, as a model, and very much more into coaching.
Darius Norell
So can they can they share and noticing what's going on as you're as you're speaking? So he's do when you when you, when I asked you the first time you use it, like an agent of change, and the neighbor of people. I was left like, wow, that's really powerful. It feels really coherent, succinct. And, and also recognizing, as you just said, sometimes it's really hard to get the words to describe what we do, right. But as you were talking in that moment, it's like, wow, that that feels really compelling. That was that was that was the reaction I had. And then I asked you, how does it sound to you listening to those words? And then my experience was almost the opposite of lots of words. And I'm struggling to focus and then kind of attend to your what's what's, what's was in going right now with that. So So I wanted to offer that as a, because it was such it was such a big difference. Like the first one was like, wow, it was like we could just stop right here. Like we're five minutes at least, like it was like, an unbelievable answer to that first question. And then your reaction, you know, how does Amazon apple and what's happening for you, as I say that?
Ian King
Yeah, I hear that I think. I think where I went with that is that reflection piece on how did I get here? Where am I going? And, you know, you said something earlier, you know, the kind of work we have to do on ourselves, you know, and I think that is possibly peace that's always there and always striving to be you know, better at what I do. And to be, you know, the best that being that agent of change or that you know, A person that will will benefit somebody else. And yeah, I think sometimes it's that piece that that I'm evaluating, you know, or if there's a further if there's a doubt about the what next, you know, it's often resides in there, you know?
Darius Norell
Now, I notice I'm less interested in generally because there's so many different ways to give form to that intent that you have. Right? So, for me, in a way, this is about connecting to clarifying what's your, what's the deepest tenants there, because it's clearly strong. And then, you know, there's there's so many different forms as you already are giving expression to that in some ways, and and then sports about all maybe there's different ways to grow that are more meaningful, interesting, useful, or I'm just ready for whatever it might be. It's the whole whole variety of form we could give to the intent of being a neighbor of people. I'm feeling incomplete around the homeschool, we'll move on to something else, but I'm feeling incomplete around the. So we go back to that initial description you gave me as I heard it as really compelling. How did you hear it? Like, I mean, you're very coherent when you talk about hey, what do you do? Yeah, I'm curious about that. How did you hear you know, how do you?
Ian King
How did I hear it?
Darius Norell
So you use these words, with people I do? Like, I see something different every time sometimes like, oh, that sounds pretty good. Often under theme, like, that didn't really feel like it described it, but it's, it's good. And it's close enough. Good enough? What's what I've got? Yeah. So I'm curious, how did it occur for you? And you know, using that description? Your original one?
Ian King
The agent of change? Yeah, it's it's a comfortable space for me, you know, it occurred? Yeah, it's it's a place that feels familiar. And, and what's the word? What's a good word that an aspiration or as well, you know, it's, it's something that I do and that I want to continue to live into. But it's not something that I feel so complacent about, you know, it's not, oh, yeah, I do this. And I'm an expert of this, it's, you know, for me, it's a it's something that I always need to develop. And, and to. I don't think I would ever say, I'm an expert at this, you know, because I think if I did, then I'm possibly not doing the best by anybody. You know, there's always something to learn. And so as much as it It pleases me. And it brings me satisfaction, to say, you know, to say those words, I always feel like it's something I've got to live into, you know?
Darius Norell
Can you can you see what the driver is? For you kind of what's, what is it? That's because this thing feels strong, I have, like, a strong sense of this is important to you, what's the driver, the driver
Ian King
for me, I think has always been the thing that's always driven me is is that I can see something, you know, I think I've always seen that the thing me that may have limited me, or you know, the events or the, you know, the Yeah, the events, the things in the past that may very well have limited me and you know, these kinds of limiting beliefs that we all have that that can mean that we don't thrive and we don't achieve the things that we're capable of. You know, and I've I that's been my lived experience, you know, and and I've been very fortunate to have either that person in life or those people or those moments of clarity where you know, I've been able to, to evolve and to challenge myself and to arrive. And I think that's the thing that really drives me and has driven me in every, every role. You know, it's it's that empathy piece and that insight that you think actually, I can see something I can, I can make a difference here by having that insight and the empathy that I have with this person or this group of people. And the passion to see them have the opportunity to thrive, you know, whether that's advice work, or whether that's coaching or whatever role I've had. So I think that's, that's what drives it, you know, it's having, you know, being on the cusp, or the precipice, or whatever is the correct term of, you know, which way do I go here? You know, it's, it's down the rabbit hole, or it's, it's onwards and upwards? Right? Thankfully, it was onwards and outwards. Yeah.
Darius Norell
Is the a formative experience that comes to mind for you that would feel worth sharing, and doesn't have to be by just kind of curious, like, illustrate your own journey and doesn't have to be yours? This would be?
Ian King
Yeah, I, I think I think probably the most formative experience was was childhood, really, you know, as it is, for many of us, when we don't have the emotional intelligence, we don't always have the language to understand what it is that is influencing us. I grew up in a in a household where there was a considerable amount of anxiety and stress, how partly to do with my father's job. And also to deal with having a very anxious mother, who wasn't great at filtering. And as the youngest of five kids, was very, very close with her, but she gave me a lot of information that you wouldn't share with a child. And so, you know, I had a lot of I guess, you know, sort of projected anxiety for want of a, you know, a better definition, over a sustained period of time, which consequently led me to be quite to be in quite unwell as a child, you know, all those things that you might expect of someone who's running around with lots of anxiety that, you know, they're not really sure what they need to be worried about, but they're perpetually anxious. So I'd say that was the sort of formative experience, which, you know, as you mature, and become a young adult, you know, I still didn't have the, the language and the understanding, you know, to kind of process or articulate. You know, what, what's my challenge? You know, why do I feel like, you know, like, this person who's who's worried about everything, and not good enough. And that was quite a process, you know, but definitely the formative. You know, experience, I think that has taken me on the journey I've been on professionally.
Darius Norell
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And so, I mean, that's, I mean, it's hard enough when we've got our own stuff to work through that really is ours, trying to work through stuff which isn't ours and distinguish that or even realize that that's possible. I'm carrying stuff that isn't mine is that that's, I think I can be really challenging. Yeah. And anything that you would share, again, that that was helpful in releasing, that is the right word, but just in the what any catalytic moments for you that you can't Yeah,
Ian King
yeah, absolutely. I know, I'll be candid. I think I got to a point where as a young adult with all that stuff. Which was enough to deal with, you know, I then had the additional, you know, say burden and challenge of, you know, acknowledging my sexuality and I was You know, not not, in any way, resilient enough to, to come and say to the people closest to me, you know, I'm a gay man. Because of all the other challenge, you know, all the other stuff that you were made to worry about. So this is, you know, not not a conversation that that we can we can have. So I think, you know, at its peak, I was acutely anxious, depressed, and, and really, you know, at rock bottom and the catalyst for me I remember walking into the a&e of a London Hospital and, and asking to see a psychiatrist, essentially, those were the days I don't know if you can still do it, but you could walk in and see a duty psychiatrist. And, you know, thank God I did, because I think, you know, I was really vulnerable, and I just couldn't cope anymore. I just couldn't function. I was really unhappy. And I was in my early 20s. And, uh, yeah, that that was a catalyst. You know, I went in, I remember sitting down, I've always had quite a dark sense of humor. Yes, perhaps no surprises there. That was my, my way of coping with all of the adversity that I felt I had. So I remember going in sitting down with this lovely woman, psychiatrist who came, and being really, really, you know, angry and upset and trying to convey the message that, you know, I'd had enough and I felt like I was a risk to myself, and, you know, I needed needed help. And she obviously saw something. I can't remember her exact words. But you know, we ended up having a laugh, you know, I think I was making her laugh because I was using humor to convey the message that about my vulnerability. And so I walked out of there. Obviously, not not having been admitted with, you know, no, no intervention planned or deemed necessary. And I think that was a catalyst, you know, just having somebody for the first time sitting down, and just being really frank and saying, you know, this is where I'm at. I'm always holding everyone up. And, and, you know, I can't do it anymore. So, you know, help. And I think her advice, generally, she was delightful back feature Mila was, I think you're alright, you know, I think you'll be alright. And, as is often the case, you have one conversation, don't worry, and you can have very different perspective. And I think I came away and I just had that. I don't know, that clarity. That moment was like, this is not this is not who I want to be. Yeah, that was an absolute catalyst for me. And the first thing I did thereafter was, was become a volunteer in a weekend drop in center near to where I live for mental health service users. Which just further I guess, supported me in terms of, you know, you already know, you've got something to give and you've got, you know, there are people who are far more vulnerable and far worse off and, you know, do something with this. Because, you know, I could empathize but that wasn't aware of where where I wanted to belong.
Darius Norell
Wow. And I'm really touched that you said that and just listening very. So that is my heart of opening and yes, feel for you in that moment. And also just acknowledge the that act of reaching out for support help. So critical. If I reflect on myself, at various times, when I've looking back when I've been in really tough places. I don't I don't reach out in that way. But I just have the story of I'm gonna sort this out myself somehow. Or even if a thought comes is like I just don't even know how to ask or I'm too embarrassed on to whatever it is, and I just don't know I think that's really unhealthy in me, I guess. You know, I think fortunate in some ways other aspects of myself, I've just, you know what has always happened, I've managed to navigate those situations and come out of them. And I don't think that's healthy or, you know, recommended. So I think that act of whatever was in you to recognize, you know what I'm at this point of desperation if I use that word, and I'm going to ask someone for some help. And clearly, whatever happened in that conversation, whether it was even just verbalizing, hey, here's where I'm at, you know, how can we do this work? Right? We know how powerful it is when we can be with someone. And to have been held, I guess, I'm gonna use that word and have not seen not having been there or knowing it. But it feels like you were held at that moment and seen at that moment and got what you needed at that moment. Amazing.
Thank you, again, for sharing it.
Ian King
No problem. You know, I think you're absolutely right. You know, and I still do it at times you can, you can be in a situation where you think I can deal with this, you know, I got all the tools. I don't need to articulate this to anybody else. And and sometimes we can write depends on what it is. I think that but you know, it can be naive to think that we've either dealt with something or that we've got the capacity, the resilience to do so. And I think that moment was, you know, I didn't realize that until many years later, and many events later, I think, but yeah, you know, whoever it is to have that conversation, whether it's with a friend, you know, an advisor or a coach, you know, we see it all the time, don't we, in this work, that one conversation sometimes is all that someone needed, you know,
Darius Norell
what occurred to me, as you were speaking was just kind of, Oh, you don't even you don't even need to wait to the point of you need to write I mean, it's, maybe you can do it yourself. And I did it myself as it were like, I'd stayed with whatever I was in. And it was pretty unpleasant and it lasted ever. But that's unnecessary. Like maybe by having talked to people, that would have been a different pathway. Or maybe I didn't need to go through something a bit tough and difficult to see what I needed to see. But I guess for people listening. What I've seen is there's so much support out there, whether it's friends, family, people that you might consider even a bit of strangers or professionals. There's a huge wealth of support goodwill, intent, love for you in the world. And if we can open to that, then some magical things can can stop happening, even if it's, Hey, I'm not alone. I'm not the only one going through this. And that's been one of the most powerful pieces that I've seen or that I've seen be powerful for people. You know, there's work we've been doing over the last year with young people who've been been going through a really tough time, right pandemic isolation. Suddenly, you're going incredibly tough. job market. Employers weren't hiring if it was on furlough and an end and people feeling worthless, ashamed, useless, lacking confidence, tried applying, you know, just what's the, you know, what do I do, and then seeing their peers and realizing, oh, my gosh, these people I'm surrounded with, they're amazing. And they're feeling exactly the same as I am downfall anxious. Mental Health. And so there's a little bit of a segue into what we've been doing but just that knowing we're not alone. Somebody is a huge I haven't even done anything. Quotes done anything at that point other than realize, just get out of my own world of this is all awful, too. Oh, wow. Yeah, there's this other people are facing very similar things. And as you said, other people are facing actually even sometimes tougher things that helps us sometimes get perspective of what what I'm facing is that it's tough and it's tough for me, and it's not everything that there is there's other other ways to say See and relate to what? What's going on? So I started sort of, I guess I'm moving us into a little bit reflecting on some of the work you've been doing. If that, is that, is that okay to go to that? Yes, for sure. Yeah. So what's what stood out for you or struck you from the work that you've been doing over this last year with young people?
Ian King
Well, I think you've just talked to it actually, Darius, and I think one of the things is, you know, this piece that's been there for lots of people is, you know, this weird world that we've been living and working in. So, you know, people either, you know, without work for a prolonged period of time, started job in this sort of, you know, new Alien Universe where they, they've never actually physically met a colleague, you know, and come to that with you know, this sort of almost extra layer of anxiety and doubt, and, you know, just the, the, the fact that the difference between just coming into work, and seeing a colleague and having a chat in the corridor, and, you know, that sort of sense of some sense of community and camaraderie and, you know, rather than just being sat home, you know, staring at a screen, and I think that that's been really challenging for some, some people, you know, I think, almost too much time to reflect, you know, the pros and cons, right? But but that that piece, where you come off a call, or you know, you're not getting feedback, whatever it is, you know, that you can very then easily attached to your own narrative about what might just be a really minor doubt about something, but then becomes this whole other story, right? Because because of the environment that you're in, and because of the way you're being required to work. So that's, I think, you know, being hugely challenging, and I think in terms of people's mental health, you know, that isolation and just lack of input sometimes, is really detrimental for people.
Darius Norell
Yeah, I mean, it's, I think it's a great point. And in the absence of information, we make up our own stories about what's going on, and I hadn't even Yeah, just just just sort of digesting what you were saying, because I hadn't really thought about it that way of, yeah, it was very easy to spiral, right, even even solid from a relatively healthy point of light, although they say the right thing to say that anyone if I'm working remotely, and I've got no one to just even check in or get a sense of, then I'm brains tend to think of what as case scenarios, and out of control that can build and build and suddenly it becomes a huge, huge thing.
Ian King
Yeah, I also think that for some, depending on what they're doing, who they're doing it for, and, you know, that sort of engagement piece, if they're working remotely. You know, I've had a sense that motivation, you know, sustaining motivation for something where you're potentially not getting feedback as actively as you would, if you were just in a space with colleagues. And or your line manager. I think that that's a challenge for people, you know, it's kind of you where's my motivation for this, you know, it's just me in a room in service or something, or someone that I either do or don't feel passionate about, right, and arguably much easier when you feel passionate about what you're doing, but
Darius Norell
no. I don't know. And then promote. I didn't sell that on the other side. But what's been inspiring for you about the work that kind of you've seen or, or uplifting?
Ian King
Yeah, I mean, that's an easy one, I think. I think it's just it's the people you know, it's these, these young adults who are brilliant, and you know, often so inspiring in terms of their passion for what they do or what they want to do. And you know, those moments where that person who has said, Well, this, you know what, All this about coaching, you know, how's this going to help me, you know, that person that's perhaps been a little difficult to engage to get, you know, get that session in. Or indeed, in in a group setting, you know, we've had some lovely moments where, you know, the participants have given each other, you know, the courage or the knowledge or something that you just see, you see them brighten, you know, you see that moment where it's like, oh, yeah, I thought of that, or, you know, oh, that's, you know, thank you for that. That's a brilliant suggestion, or, yeah, so so, you know, that's, for me, always inspiring, you know, just that, that piece that I think the biggest thing that seems to emerge is that the is the self compassion piece, you know, and we're awful at it as human beings, aren't we but, you know, I think particularly in this context, you know, with people who have, you know, lingered on unemployment, after, you know, getting a brilliant degree and being full of hope, and, you know, joy about their future, and then in roles, the pandemic, and no job, you know, very little contact with people where they may have finished their degree virtually, and not had the experience that they were aspiring to. It inevitably, is going to knock your, your confidence and, and so for me, the self compassion piece, and seeing people have those moments where they allow themselves to be a bit kinder to themselves, or you invite them to try something that, you know, they, they are willing to go and have a go app and just, you know, take a risk, be be kind to yourself, you know, change the narrative, and to see that actually happen, and to see them have those moments and to get the feedback that oh, yeah, I tried this. And it's been really helpful. Yeah, that's inspiring. It's helpful.
Darius Norell
Yeah. And just, as you say, seeing and brilliance and people and being part of somehow that shining more, yeah, so amazing. One of my kind of, I guess, learning edges, and I'd love to love to hear your reflections on your own. So in this work, I got an I got an email from someone who participated in the scheme, because I can I can be too, you know, way too committed to people's potential, like oh my gosh, like you're capable of so much you're so able, and then if people aren't fulfilling it, or aren't unlocking to the degree close, that I think is possible, or that they should or like my own story about, you know, then I feel disappointment, right and lost, offered in a sense of lost opportunity. So that's what I am saying it's kind of a, an edge for me to to, say let go of or just to understand more deeply that this is what really shifted. So as someone I've been working with, we've done six months together, I think is amazing. And everything was off to do. And it felt like it fell short of what could have been possible. There was a bunch of stuff that was getting in the way in different ways working remotely. And he wrote me an email at the end of the six months saying, Thank you so much for the opportunity to this has been the best six months of my life that I've had in a very long time. And it shook me of out of oh my gosh, like a how amazing and not so happy that's the whole point of this thing. And in his world of how long he'd have not had any work at all before and then just like great, What greater gift to give someone this opportunity? Even if it was 50% 30% of what it could have been that it's irrelevant it's a he was that's a huge and it's not up to me to say that anyway, right? Even if I even if I quote as new but just to here really helped me connect to what's most important and beautiful about being alongside people of wow, that's that's important for me. that that's been a positive step. And that I can now go to an interview and talk about work I've actually done rather than, you know, what do you do the last six months, sitting at home on a sofa, or whatever else it might be. So that I'm sort of sharing that as an as an Edge and Internet site insight. Yeah, just seeing how carried away I can get, and how unhelpful that is. And there's a lovely part of it, but it can also become a pitfall. So I'm curious, what are you seeing for you? Or? Your Yeah, is there as an edge or a learning learning point for you?
Ian King
Yeah, I think there's always always a learning isn't there? You know, and, you know, I absolutely hear what you're saying, I think sometimes, you we see the potential, don't we, and, and we can become frustrated on behalf of somebody if we don't think that we are that they are fulfilling that potential. But, you know, I think that the outcome that you described, you know, demonstrates very clearly, if they, if somebody takes away one thing, right, that that is beneficial to them in whatever they then choose to do. Whether that's in a personal or professional capacity, then, then we've done good work, right? If we've, if we helped them find or learn something about themselves or the world, or other people that that, that they value, and that that experience will benefit them, that knowledge will benefit them, then, then we've, we've done all right, I think, I think the learning for me has been, you know, to notice that sometimes, and perhaps a bit like you're in a way I want the best for people. And I have to be mindful that I'm not directive, you know, especially wearing two hats, you know, I work as an advisor, so I have to be directive with often very challenged people who, you know, will or won't act on that, but that's the job, you know, you need to know this, and I need to tell you how to do this or where to get this. So I have to be careful not to particularly with this with this group, you know, because they, they speak to my heart, I guess in terms of, you know, some young adults who might not be feeling hugely self compassionate, or value themselves. And, you know, I, as we've discussed, I know, that place, you know, I know that face very well so that that's something that I have to be aware of, and not lean into too heavily. You know,
Darius Norell
it's, it's such a delicate line, if it is even a line of just when am I overreaching getting drawn in? And I know that, you know, the, the approach that we've kind of sort of training that you went through, as it were, that we were kind of this must be this piece around an adult adult, which was responsible for our own lives, is really empowering conversations. And yeah, how to how to show up in the relationship in a way that's also really is helpful and speaking to what's needed. So it's, it's certainly not simple or mechanistic work, in terms of sensing into a where am i right now in this? Yeah, how know who am I being for this person that I'm with? And can I, at least for me, like can I be full of compassion and, and potentially stay in that being he's versus the directive to allow them to feel like a feeling that comes through me when he talks about self compassion. Wrong, like that's a powerful place of being powerful stance, I experience. And so part of it for me is really trusting the power of that and that people get an experience of of if it's okay to use these words being loved. And then The potential for transformation that that moment holds of, I'm okay. Then something might become possible just from that, from that place
without us necessarily needing to say anything doesn't stop us from saying something, just just allow that possibility of the person experiencing it for themselves.
Ian King
And being seen, right, and really being seen. And I think that for any of us, you know, depending on the context, that isn't always a comfortable space to be in. But, yeah, to be seen, and to be, to know that you're in a compassionate and safe space, you know, can be really powerful. As you say, you know, you may not be saying a great deal, or anything, you may have said one thing, and being a catalyst for somebody, to Yeah, to love themselves a bit. And to, to be alright with that, you know, it's it's surprising, and, you know, it's, it does, you know, it does make me sad, sometimes how often, I talk to people who feel like that self indulgent, you know, that that's something they can't give themselves. And it's so limiting. You know, it's so fundamental to whatever it is they want to do or achieve. But if that piece isn't there, then it's probably unlikely that those other things are going to align or work very well. Right. Or bring you fulfillment. And so yeah, it's powerful. And it's it's special, you know, when, when that happens, and yeah, it's easier sometimes than others, right? You know, some people for all their reasons, hardened or resistant or stuck, and yeah, you have to, you have to find that language, don't you that works with that person.
Darius Norell
Yes, and, as I was with this phrase of gifted is to the gift of seeing someone I want to give to give someone to just really see them. And to see all of them, even the bits which are hard or difficult or that don't want to see themselves just to be able to see wow, it seems like this is their view. And that being okay, too. Because that's what's there. That's what's showing. And yeah, just the incredible both beauty and power and, yeah, it's always about heart at its heart, but just that heart almost heart to heart connection with people. And all this pressure that we intention that we put on ourselves or we experience from others that isn't isn't necessarily needed. It was feeling to me like we were kind of coming to more of a closing point in that sort of conversation together. Anything that feels present for you that you want to share or say or
Ian King
Yeah, I think you know, it's it always feels like a bit of a gift, really a bit of a treat, to talk about the work, you realize how we just get on with it, we do it on so little opportunity, sometimes outside of supervision and, you know, the models that are there for us as practitioners to just have a chat about it and reflect and and think about what's important. And, you know, and what drives it as well. You know, I don't think anyone's asked me that. Ever. So yeah, it's nice to to reflect and and be clear and congruent about why do I do this again, you know, how did I get here? So that's been really helpful and enjoyable, you know, to talk about that and, and share it really, because it's just not something that people really ever ask, they might ask what you do and who you do it for. A less often asked why you do it right. And we do it as coaches, but right
Darius Norell
now, and how have you found the conversation as a whole?
Ian King
Really good? Yeah, really good. It's it, you know, I'll come away. And I'll reflect as I as I always do, there's always some learning isn't there? You know, for me there is there's always some learning and
that that pace around where am I going? And what next? I already feel perhaps a bit clearer about that as a result of this chat. Yeah. Yeah.
And, and, again, you know, and thank you, but it's that that that?
What is it that is intrinsically motivating? You know, about this and your why, and we're sat here having this conversation with you, how did I get here? And I'm feeling good about that. Yeah. We get we get caught up, don't we, in the the treadmill of everything we're doing the even the bits we don't like, off more often the bits we don't like Yeah. So this has been lovely in that sense of helping me clarified
Darius Norell
was great to hear any feedback for me? In terms of how I've shown up or?
Ian King
Yeah, I think, well, there's a thank you. And feedback, you know, is as you always show up, Darius, which is, you know, as this brilliant listener and observer and the decluttering my many words are not the most succinct person and yeah, and I love the opportunity, a rare opportunity to, to share. So, yeah, thank you for hearing the important bits. And helping me reflect. And thanks, also for the opportunity, you know, just doing the work has been at times challenging, but hugely rewarding.
Darius Norell
Well, it's been a great pleasure talking with you. And I was gonna say the same for you, like thank you for everything you've done over this past year. And yeah, just being there at that time and making a difference in people's lives. And for the part you played in that, so big thank you for me too.
Outro
Thank you for listening to that episode. I was left with just a reminder of that quality of self compassion that he talked about just how important it is how valuable is how much we can neglect ourselves in this busy crazy world. Just what a beautiful gift it is to see people to let go of needing to do anything. Be clever, be smart, say anything. Really be there for each other. I wish you well. Whatever your day has next in store and if you find an opportunity, some self compassion or chance to really see someone whether that's a child a partner, someone you work with... really take a moment to be with who they are. Love to hear how you get on.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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