#12. Creating an Impact - Charlie Welch
“That’s the work that makes your eyes light up”
Charlie Welch has made a career of working with young people, helping them to be at their natural best. She joins the podcast to share some of her own incredible life story, as well as stories of the brilliant young people she has worked with along the way, native genius, and how finding the things in life that light you up allow you to make a lasting impact.
Listen to full episode :
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Charlie Welch is a training and development consultant who has challenged, trained and motivated clients from over 100 organisations during the last 30 years. These have ranged from individual research students to leaders working in global brands including GSK, General Electric and the University of Oxford. Charlie is also a trained Brilliance coach with People and Their Brilliance.
Interested in hearing more from Charlie? She shared another story with us in a blog post on our website, which you can read here.
Benjamin Zander - Shining Eyes.
Nancy Kline - Time To Think
Simon Sinek - The Art of Listening
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Darius Norell
So welcome to this episode of What's your work? I am joined by Charlie Welch today very excited to be in conversation with you, Charlie, thank you for joining. And I'm gonna take inspiration actually from another guest. I know I asked, Oh, how should I introduce you which I use some words that you use, and you can use those words as well. When I asked him, he said, Oh, talk about your experience of me. That's how I like to be introduced. I thought that was a lovely, lovely invitation. So I'm going to do that as well. So my experience of you is someone who's conscientious, really caring, capable and wants to do great work in the world. How does that how does that fit?
Charlie Welch
Thank you, Darius. Thank you, Darius. And yes, oh, well, my I think my my automatic response is to, is to appreciate you in a similar way. And to appreciate the enormous determination, you have to make a success of helping, supporting, encouraging the voice of the young people and the young people themselves in the world. And I think we share that as a passion. So yes, I appreciate that. And you thank you.
Darius Norell
And you said that that's, that's the work that makes your eyes light up, and kind of brings you fully to life. Do you want to share a little bit about what other work you're involved in?
Charlie Welch
Yes, certainly. So last week, I really pulled up my trousers and, and stepped into what I consider to be quite a quite a senior corporate space that I don't normally work in. And I was coaching senior leaders of a multimillion pound business. And I've not consciously worked at that level before I think I perhaps I had, but not on a one to one basis. And I am going to say that I loved it, because I just realised they're human beings, everybody is just human. And I think I've been trying to tell myself that for a while if we've been really honest, but actually to step in there and do that work. I did thoroughly enjoy it. But the the work with young people is still and I I love this phrase, the the what makes your eyes light up. I heard it from a wonderful lady who was working around a topic that she called native genius. And, and I think for our young people, and for people who might be listening to this, your you know, the people who listen to your podcast is this idea that we all have something within us, that comes effortlessly, it just comes easily. It's natural to us. So much so that we probably take it for granted. Because it comes so easily to us. But we probably do it even if we weren't being paid. And that's the stuff that we need to find and really get clear about because that's where we I feel really strongly we can add our value, share our gifts in the world, if you like
Darius Norell
we could stop there. I mean, I said two minutes, and we're done. I think what beautiful summary brings me Did you ever see there was a video that Benjamin Zander did - Shining Eyes? I don't know if you've seen that? Ill send you a link and we can reference it in the in the show notes as well. It's just so lovely. Yeah, similar idea of kind of what makes our eyes shine, come to life that's going to happen anywhere irrespective of being paid or or not. Yeah. So what is it that makes you come to life in that in that context with young people? What is it that's drawing you to that?
Charlie Welch
I think it's when the penny drops for them, when they suddenly appreciate the things that do come naturally to them. And understand that that can be your value, because they've perhaps taken it for granted. For so long. It's just me, you know, I'm just, I just care about my friends. Oh, okay. And how would that be if that were part of your work? Oh, my gosh, I hadn't really thought about that I was just thinking about an office job. So yes, I think the things that make my eyes light up are when other people have those, when when young people have those realisations and then when they secure a role that enables them to use those natural skills, strengths, talents, gifts, that's the best.
Darius Norell
And so what's so I'm going to push you a little bit. So what's different from that compared to working with a senior person, and then also having some kind of breakthrough recognition incitement like, oh, my gosh, I could be doing this with my life, or I could be doing this work in a different way or kind of what's
Charlie Welch
right, well, I think being truly being authentic, because I think that's really important. I'm daunted, and daunted by the senior people. And, and I, you know, part of my part of who I am, avoids conflict, and doesn't want to justify that what I've got is useful. I just want people to go Oh, yeah, I could, I could, that might be really useful to me. And I think that the senior people, perhaps, I, perhaps, I think that they've got lots of support, they can pay for expensive coaching, they've got you know, their, their world enables that to happen. And there are so many million young people who don't have that access. And that's where I should be looking and focusing.
Darius Norell
So can I can I play that back to you and then add a? Yeah, some more challenge. I think, because you started with, I'm daunted by it. And then came up with, you know, what could be said to be maybe a truthful, but sounded like a bit of post rationalisation of, Oh, they've got access to other resources, and young people don't. And they're the ones who really, who really need it and just wondering Is that true? What's what's
Charlie Welch
so if you put two people in front of me, and yes, I take your point about it sounding like the post rationalisation. So I think there is a gut feel that is that is reluctant to do that work, because I feel scared about it. That is true, undoubtedly. But if you put two people in front of me, one of whom had access to all the resources and a network and a background that enabled them to work through issues and problems, and a young person who had none of that, I would turn to the right, immediately. And, you know, say to that young person, okay, well, how might we work together such that I learned something from you, and you learn something from me, because I'm really going to get excited about that. Now, I'm gonna get energised about that.
Darius Norell
Not not to plough the furrow too deeply, but to keep ploughing it. Yes. Your work with that senior person could be incredibly impactful. You know, the potential for you to unlock something in them, someone who's got access to power and resources and finance and whatever it might be, and then what they might do with a shift in their thinking might actually create more impact than working with that young person.
Charlie Welch
And absolutely, I see that and funnily enough, Darius, I have been paying attention to the website, I don't know whether your listeners might have come across it called https://80000hours.org/ and they talk about, you know, they are a research organisation who publish careers that are focused on on dealing with the world's most pressing problems. And rather than say, for example, you know, if someone's very capable academically then becoming a doctor, why not work as a researcher on the world's most pressing medical problems where you can have a much greater impact? So I really do. I do understand what you're saying and I do understand that and yet there is something about the one to one with a young person that, and maybe I don't know, because I haven't thought about it. And you always provoked me to think Darius, which is another thing that I really appreciate about working with you or being with you is that that young person has a whole life ahead of them the intervention or the question that I asked or the thinking that I do, or the attention that I pay for them, we might substantially change the track of their life. And that's something that also Yeah, also, is it I'm drawn to in some way.
Darius Norell
Yeah. And you know, as I'm saying, This replays of me too, right? I mean, I'm, but there is also something that draws me to people. And I've got a different explanation for it. I think as what what draws me to that place which I can share or not, I don't know if it's helpful if it's helpful to share, but there's a, I think there's an openness, particularly when people are transitioning out of education, or whether it's leaving school, whether it's leaving university, whether it's been a few years into either looking for work, in work, and just the coming into contact with reality of Oh, life's not working out the way I thought it would, right. I've done all these things that we haven't studied, or haven't studied, or kind of. But I'm now sort of, for the first time being the person who gets to choose what I do with my life. And my life's not working out in a way that I was hoping for thinking it would, wanting it to and people don't have typically, people don't have that many commitments, right? It's not true for everyone. But typically, we got less, there's less entanglements, less commitments, more opportunity, and availability, mentally to really reflect on okay, what am I, what am I going to do, and be able to act on a shift, versus someone who's 20 years into a career, who's got this little story too, but it's like lifestyle, mortgage, family, whatever else might be there, that they then get an insight and go, Oh, I'm married to the wrong person, or I'm in a job that now I mean, I've got a, I've got to start at the bottom in their heads or whatever, you have to shift, you know, whatever it might be. There's a lot, there's a lot more, or apparent restriction, maybe real restriction, also on their ability to be available for the conversation and then move is my that's my bias. So that's, that's what draws me. I mean, also what you're saying there's a chance to have a big impact at a critical time and be there for someone in a way that they might not otherwise have someone. And there's some readiness, receptivity. Yeah, let's, let's remind how does that sound?
Charlie Welch
Yes. I would agree, entirely that readiness and that receptivity. It's almost as if the the lenses on the shades of dark glasses haven't come down to know what is possible.
Darius Norell
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Not, not totally solidified or less entrenched,
Charlie Welch
less entrenched, absolutely more open to possibility. And I think the other thing is, because I've focused in that area, I have seen the successes. And that's the joy is that working with young people, and you know, that's not to say that it wouldn't work for senior people either. But you see them achieve, you see the differences that they have made themselves in their own lives. And you can share those with other young people in the same space and say, Look, this is someone who was like you, they they were in prison, for example. I worked with an incredible young man about three years ago. So before just before locked down, who had come out of prison, and he's, you know, he was just in a space of who's, who's going to employ me now. I don't know what I'm going to say. I don't know how I'm going to talk about this. And four months later, he was standing in the House of Lords speaking about knife crime. He had secured a job with his local city council doing youth work. And last year, he was the made the London Apprentice of the Year. And, you know, you, you go and talk to someone else who's in the same situation and you say, yeah, look, let me show you this young man, this is what happened for him. And he was in the same space. And, you know, I just think that's a gift that I can share the experiences that I've had of those young people with others. Yeah, that that makes it so well worth doing.
Darius Norell
I can, there's a voice in my head wanting us to take us in a particular direction. And it is kind of I'm trying to resist it at the same time as wanting us wanting to go.
Charlie Welch
Now I'm intrigued Darius
Darius Norell
it's, it's around the topic of confidence. And this is a topic that comes up a lot with young people, right of feeling under confident or not confident on, however we want to describe it. And when I hear you talking about young people, I hear you, I hear confidence, right? confidence in yourself confidence in the results that you can get. And, and it comes to really powerfully and what an amazing way to be able to show up with people, right? You know, just in your self confidence modelling that having, as you say, stories of other people who've made transitions in their own life. And yeah, I experienced you as as sort of powerful in that state.
Charlie Welch
For those of you who can't see and who are just listening, I'm, I'm grinning because Darius has an unnerving knack of hitting the sweet spots. And so yes, my response is, I do feel hugely under confident in that corporate space, despite having worked there for, you know, I was in the army, as Darius knows, we have a little commonality there. Go way back. And, and when I left the army, I was super confident. And, and, and I did work as you know, I did I do work as a trainer, coach facilitator in the corporate space. And I'm always nervous, and I'm always supremely nervous, and I don't sleep the night before, and my body goes into fight or flight. And yet, when I'm working with young people, it doesn't. I get energised, I get excited, I get a bit nervous. Yeah. But it's nothing compared to the Yeah, how I feel in that different space.
Darius Norell
So to to, to sort of meet top top line reflections was a that might be fine, right? It's like, oh, yeah, this is work. I love doing I get energised by with young people. And so I could interpret it as like, Hey, this is my work to do. And this is my way of my body telling me like this is not, you know, not work to do. Right. So that could be one potentially valid interpretation. And another is kind of oh, it's actually a it's, there's a restriction on what you're able to do. Right? There's this response is kind of holding back a side of you that could get expression that could be really impactful. And it's a signal that oh, there's something to being curious about here about Mmh, what is that that's present in me? Does it need to be is there actually something there? What are my views about it or kind of that could be helpful to explore no matter who you're working with? Right. So that could be both. And it's, you know, you you were in the real army. I mean, I was sort of round the edges of it. And we were both we weren't at Sandhurst, you were there. I was on a short service limited Commission, which meant I was there for three and a half weeks. So just kind of getting a taste. And if I remember correctly, you graduated - not sure if that's the right word - passed out as top cadet. Is that accurate? Yes, it is. Yeah. Which is amazing. I mean, that's a huge. I mean, yeah. Huge. And I, you know, I think of myself at that age, obviously, we were younger then and, I mean, it sounds like it wasn't, and I was wondering, because I know, for me at that time, like there was there was that egoic part of me was much stronger. And I would have been full of ooh look out, you know, I'm so great. Like, I came top. Like, I'd have been trying I don't know, if you were trying to be like, I would have been like, Oh, I wonder if I can, you know, that would have been all that would have been my inner that knows that. You're sorry, that would be my kind of way of relating to that. And I think I mean, as a to acknowledge, right what an incredible accomplishment to get acknowledged in that way. How did you relate to it then? What was how was what was your reaction to it?
Charlie Welch
Complete surprise and shock. Because a girl had never won, it was called the Queen's Medal and I only share this story with young people, I never I don't share it with anybody else. But I suppose I'm going to a slightly wider a wider audience here. But I'm hoping that most of you, most of you, I share it as a collaborative achievement. Because none of the girls so that we had a company of 60 girls, and I don't know how many 100 boys were there, but hundreds, hundreds of boys are that. And we never, you know, it just wasn't on our radar. And I think for all of us, we, for the majority of us, I don't know if I can speak for everyone. But we were just trying incredibly hard. And I had what prompted me what prompted me to work so hard Darius is the fact that I had had what I consider to be a failure. So I had been through university, and it had been a pretty miserable experience for me actually. Like not great mental health, especially in the final year, I'd stopped going to lectures. And I came out with a third class degree. And I think that was a narrow, you know, only just gotten a degree. Yeah, I know, it seems such a long time ago. But I was the first in my family to go to university. And I felt that I had let my family down massively. And so I arrived at Sandhurst with quite some determination that I was never going to let that happen again. And I was going to work my hardest. And I was going to prove to myself that you know that I could do this, this, you know, this chosen career and I kind of wanted to be in the services for since I was relatively young. But but I really wanted to just work my socks off work my hardest. And as we were coming to near the end of the course, I didn't know but it appeared that I was in the running for the Queen's Medal. And the the colonel who was in charge of our college, got alongside a couple of my friends couple of the girls in my company and said Charlie doesn't know but she is quite close to winning the Queen's Medal and it all comes down to a steeplechase race, which is you know, a long old race as a you know, Darius with, you know, hurdles and water and mud and all that sort of thing. And I set off on on the race not knowing this. And I was running along next to one of my colleagues, one of the cadets and they said, Right, come on, we'll catch up with the next person. And so we ran and caught up with the next person. And they looked at me said, Oh, Hi, Charlie. Right, we're going to run and catch up with the next person. And unbeknown to me my friends had spread the word about the whole company that this was going to be, you know, a make or break whether I won the Queen's Medal. And so slowly, little by little, I was pushed further and further up towards the front runners until suddenly I was running with people I have no I was looking left. Oh my word. I'm running with these people. I you know, I could barely breathe. And they were still pushing me and pushing me and pushing me and and I fell over the line. And as I did so goodness knows what language is coming out of my mouth, but I fell over the line. And the adjutant leaned down and he tapped me on the shoulder and he said, Congratulations, Miss Tipper. That is my maiden name. He said, You've just won the Queen's Medal. And, you know, I? Well, I Yes, I was certainly overawed. But then the wonderful thing was all the girls who then crossed the line after me, were then told that piece of news and you know, there was just clapping and cheering from everybody for everybody, because it had been all of us. And there were a number of other girls who were similarly doing so well. And it could have been them. So yes, that's that's the story of how I how I see it. It could have been others very easily. We all worked hard. We all supported each other. And even now, 30 years later, we still all meet up about 40 out of the 60 get together you know it was an incredible bond. Very lucky.
Darius Norell
So incredible. So again, incredible accomplishment, powerful moment. That sense of connection. What is it do you think that they saw in you? For you to be the first woman to be awarded that honour?
Charlie Welch
I don't know that it was something they saw in me actually Darius. I think it was that every single assessment every single, whether it was academic or fitness or leadership or anything that they could assess you on you were scored on. And at the end of the day, it came down to the fact that I just did really well on the scores.
Darius Norell
There, we're seeing some of them in there, we're assessing you on different things. I mean, some of them were individual accomplishments on like, leadership is more kind of, okay, what are we what are we seeing here? And can I share reflection, just hearing it was very moving hearing you talk about it. eyes watering, kind of just listening to you and deceiving connecting with you telling, telling. And just going back to this frame of senior leaders, and just the kind of leadership that we need in the world, right, and how, you know, I keep pushing you like, how great were you right? Cuz that was my frame of like, there's very individual frame, like that was my suddenly at that age was a very me, how can I look good? How can I be great, how can I make sure I'm important? How do I get acknowledged? And it seems like you've got a very innate quality, which is, it's about us and we in collaboration and connection. And just the extent to which you see that's needed in the world, from senior leaders. Right does that that resonates for you.
Charlie Welch
Undoubtedly. So the group that I was working with last week, Darius, I was they were a senior team of 14 people who'd come together through mergers and acquisitions. And they were having a problem listening, really generatively listening to one another. And, sadly, they were in the US. So I couldn't go out and run the workshop that was following on. But what I tried to do for each and every one of them was to help them to understand the value of listening deeply to one another. And I and I got so swept up there and my thinking I forgotten the question that you asked me Darius
Darius Norell
It was around if you embody a way of leading, which is let's call it connective collaborative. It's not the I right? So we can see at the moment in the world, there's a lot of dictator type leadership top down, I'm right. And so that's, that's an oversimplification but plenty of that energy around in, in our companies and boardrooms. And certainly, you know, and to the extent that we that we need more than ever, a leadership style approach, which is much more connected, inclusive, that you embody, naturally, I mean, even at that age, you know, you were you were coming to the fore. And I think the example of what happened in that steeplechase race as an example is like oh, people naturally came up Yeah, but you weren't leading them in can you all support me? It just rose up of hey, look, we're in this together. And that seems like something that's deep in you which is an incredible offer to people who are in senior positions who again, generalising if we need more of this kind of leadership in the world that you can speak to
Charlie Welch
I hadn't I hadn't really thought about it like that. Isn't it interesting when you pay attention to what what goes on? There was a flow of energy there that I just felt as as you were talking that there was yeah there was a lean in there was a definite yes, I can see how that might be and I don't know how it might be but yes, that's really interesting Darius as ever. Mmh
Darius Norell
Because yeah, for me, like my my what gets me excited and my eyes shining is people discovering their own potential. And then being able to offer that in ways which are of service and useful to others and you're so committed to being useful in the world if I can put it that way that feels like not the right language. But yeah, being having a wanting people having a positive impact on people. And so the opportunity for you to offer even more fully, you know, from somebody that's just naturally deep inside you, I didn't have that that wasn't my style of leading or I remember I mean, this is embarrassing, right? This is this is true like and this was to get selected, right? You were given all these assessments, as you know, three and a half days of assessments. And we were given this conundrum of like this, oh, you're in the Amazon jungle, and you've got, you know, one of your team, you've got a guide, and you've got this person, one of them's a thief, your compatriots injured, you've got a bow, you can walk, you know, you got to figure out how to, you know, and you've got the treasure or whatever it was that the mission was. And this is genuinely true, and this is really embarrassing that everyone was presenting their solutions, right? And they were giving everyone a hard time because their maths wasn't very good or good enough, right? And they miscalculated how long this bit was going to take in that bit was going to take. And I was looking at this thing. I was like, Well, this is relatively easy to solve. My guess is actually wasn't unsolvable. That was the whole point they just wanted to see your thinking. But I was like, this is easy to solve. This is embarrassing. Like, if I just leave my guy behind was injured, we can easily we can easily accomplish this. Right? It's like no problem. Like, there's only because we know. So that was my solution. Right. So. So I stand up and say, well, first thing I do is leave John. And I just saw their reaction. Like, sorry, what did you say? I said, no sorry, not not John. Because I realised, you know, that's not the answer they wanted to hear. There's probably like anything else would have been better than leaving, like the one person who's on your side behind. But I was just focused on what you want to achieve the mission. Right. It was like mission. That was the I couldn't I couldn't see past that I was looking at as a as a puzzle. And fortunately, my math was really good. Because I was able to then recalculate everything on the fly of okay, well, I haven't got John now, sorry I have got John now and we can only travel at this speed and that, you know, and yeah, my own experience. I was then pulled out by the Brigadier, they said it was random. I don't think it was random. They know, we just randomly pull a couple of people out for a personal interview, just to chat. I was like, I'm not sure. I think I'm an edge case. And they're trying to figure out who is this amusing word clown. But this person that, you know, they're showing lots of interesting capabilities, but also, like, not quite getting what this is all about, or apparently. And they asked me what leadership is? What does it mean to be a leader? Why do you want to be a leader? Why do you wanna be an officer? And so I, my source of energy was genuinely to be of service, right? That's what I understood. And I'm not even sure I was really familiar with a serve to lead, you know, as a kind of, say, slogan, or even that was what I just was just like, that was me. I was like, that's what I think being a leader is, is taking responsibility and caring about the people who in your care. Like, that's, that's what I saw and understood it to be. And that was, I mean, that was genuine, even though I left John behind, but it doesn't make any sense in that context. But that's, you know, I guess, I don't know how I don't I can't even reconcile those two like, Well, why would you leave John behind? I don't know, but that's genuinely Yeah, I guess really talking about that was that's what was there for me. Maybe I was just seeing this as a paper puzzle. And John wasn't really real enough for me in that in that moment. And yeah, that seemed to be a good enough answer. For them. And I got through from from that perspective, but it's a different way. It wasn't, you know, my style of leading. Like, the natural source of it is different from yours. Right, and I think yours is more needed. I would not say that I haven't grown adapted and the different ways of leading, but at the moment, we're lacking that real we, as you saw, with like, really capable people, who, individually you might speak to us as a lovely person, and then you put them in a room together. And all of the ways that the people are interacting, you know, are just dysfunctional and certainly falling short of the potential and opportunity.
And so I guess, partly I'm offering that feels like something that that to be confident offering maybe to say in a straight way.
Charlie Welch
Yes. It's interesting, because for the last few weeks, I've been doing a listening challenge Darius. So an amazing lady called Jane Adshead Grant and I can give you the link so people can look her up, but it's based on the work of Nancy Klein and Time to Think and what I've learned in doing this challenge, and it's a little exercises every day, so just to building those habits is the difference that that level of listening truly, truly makes. And again, I watched a wonderful Simon Sinek video - I can give you the link - about the difference it makes when people feel that they are heard. And, and I'm sure that some of those senior people come into these meetings, thinking we've only got this amount of time, and I've got to get through this agenda. And you know, and actually, the people on there, the people that they are working with, that they are hoping to get the best out of, or leaving that meeting, they haven't even said a word something you barely had a chance. So yes, that might be a little space that I could explore and lean into a little bit more guys.
Darius Norell
I guess the other reflection from me because I'm just thinking about my own reaction and to to different kinds of work. Where I'm, you know, if I'm a third party in the work, as in someone else has basically done all the briefing and kind of, you know, all the alignment of okay, what's really needed? And then I'm brought in kind of, at a distance to Oh, could you just do this? That gives me cause for, for anxiety of what is this really what's wanted? Like, I'm basically saying, like, basically, you think this is wanted, and but I haven't really heard it from them. Or maybe even a step beyond that of like, this doesn't even seem like it would be that useful, or there's something else that you know, that that I find unless I really know that person and trust and kind of have a lot of confidence in them. Who's in the person who's in the middle, then that makes me feel uncomfortable? I think I do. I'm just trying to think if I do any work like that anymore? Probably not. I just kind of, that just doesn't fit for me. Where I'm able to really be in dialogue with okay, what is it that you really need and want? And why? And how is it you think I'm the right person for this? And what would good look like what would not look like? And then then I feel more relaxed? And ultimately, I mean, ultimately, again, this might be interesting, coming back to our work in general is kind of who has responsibility for the work being a success? And maybe that's even artificially separational in that what's just being really clear, what's my responsibility in this and what's their responsibility, and ultimately, they're going to drive the success or not of what happens, I can offer whatever I want, if they're not engaging with it, or not listening to it, I don't want to use it, but nothing's going to be any different. And I'm more interested in you know, I remember doing some work with a with a, an investment bank. And I'd been working with some senior leaders. And then they said, Oh, can you do this group with this group. And the feedback after the group was really poor, like, I got poor feedback so much that they, you know, and their response was, as soon as anyone gets any poor feedback, you're cut, right? It's like, We don't ever want to work with that person again, because they got they got one poor score, you know, we can't we can't tolerate that in our organisation. So okay. But it was really like, oh, well, people, you know, felt didn't get much value from it. Was it? No, I could see that they would, you know, every time I ask them to do an exercise they didn't do it? This was the days we were doing in person was, I doesn't know, I can understand that. Well, it's like, you should have made sure that you know, that these people are adults, like they're in the room or for this topic, it's actually a really relevant topic for them. You've had all your other groups go, this is great. This was actually slightly more junior group. And I'm not going to force them to do something if they don't want to do it, that there's something else that I could talk about. But it's not, you know, like, I'm the same facilitator doing the same thing. If I, if I had an off day, or I messed up, I'd be like, oh, yeah, look, I'm sorry, I just didn't didn't hit the mark. I did my thing. People didn't want to engage with it. Okay, that's, that's what happened. And irrespective I was off the list. But they couldn't cancel one I had that there was already a date in the next week with a group of very senior leaders. That when so well, they're like, Oh, well, we can't we can't cancel him. Now. We'll just have to sort of, you know, we'll, we'll just put that one to one side and but they could, you know, so that there's there's, as they often maybe that's unfair, maybe but there's often some dysfunction of can you as the facilitator, solve the problem I've got without naming that, hey, I've got to give everybody not engaged and great. Well, great I can come into that and we could talk about that. But to to sort of skirt over it and go I'll just do this thing and if they don't say you were fantastic, then that's your problem. Like no I'm sorry, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not taking that. So I feel like I've got very attuned to any movement of , I'm putting something, some putting something on me, which is not mine, whether that's a senior person or a young person. So I'm curious, particularly with young people just to go back to well and go wherever you want to go. But also, just think about the long people because there's a lot of habits of people being disempowered by the system around them, and expecting other people eventually to take responsibility for them. And so I'm curious about even your experience, you know, go wherever you want to go with it, but either senior or junior?
Charlie Welch
Yes, I did. I somebody shared something with me this morning, and I don't know whether I will be able to remember it. Exactly. But, but the yes, that it was a it was about entitlement, I think, and gratitude and the connection between those two. So So you know, people who are successful at whatever age at whatever level are, are grateful. And there's there was a link between, you know, the world, the world is owing me, I'm not very grateful for what I've already got, and, and the world is owing me and, you know, I look around, and I just think how incredibly blessed we are, to have a roof over our heads, you know, just at a really basic level. Stepping into that space, not only of, of gratitude, but also a contribution, which, you know, you talk about being so important, where, where can I contribute? That, that that is, yeah, that that is so important. And I do, and I do talk to some young people who have lived in environments where they, it sounds like they're surrounded by people who are expecting, you know, they, you know, that should be done for me. And, and it's just lovely to watch that lift when they're when they go, oh, oh, it's, it's only going to happen if I if I do something about it, it's only going to happen if I take responsibility and look at the difference it made when I did. And that is that's a wonderful space. It really is. That sometimes I think it takes some people that no matter how old they are a long while to realise that
Darius Norell
For sure. For sure.
Charlie Welch
I mean, I've got I've just got lots of lovely examples Darius, which I like sort of drawn to share with you as we come to the end of them. You know, I, I can talk about, you know, and I'll use other names, but you know a lovely girl, Mimer, who, when she was in sixth form, she actually almost became unsociable because with her friendship group, because she wanted to add value to her portfolio. She wanted to really work on her, her passion was for photography, and filming. And she actually went and worked with the homeless in Bournemouth, and she volunteered, and she did photography. And she was making a contribution, and she was working hard and giving up her free time. And she's now working for BT Sport, and she's one of the few female film camera women, y'know around the circuit because, you know, she decided that she was going to take responsibility for her future career. And she did that really, really early. And then, you know, I can think of others who took that responsibility on on much later. And I can think of people who've had through putting determination in that space. So a young man who I was working with the Prince's Trust, and he came on one of our courses, and he had a passion for trains. He spoke four different languages from the Indian subcontinent. And he was just wonderful with people. He struggled a little bit to communicate as clearly and effectively as he wanted to, but he was so determined. And every time he after the course, every time he applied for a job, he connected he contacted me on LinkedIn and said, just to let you know, I've applied for customer service at St. Pancras, and then he'd come back to me and say, unfortunately, I didn't get. And then I've just applied for customer service at actually then got onto buses when he'd exhauseted all the train stations and no sadly didn't get it. 250 applications later that after each one, he messaged me. And and there were a group of us actually all behind him because we could we just knew how much he had to offer in this space that he was brilliant. And, and eventually he got you got down to a few assessment centres and didn't get through. But then he did. And he ended up working at Euston station customer service, it's absolutely brilliant. And that just that drive that determination, because nobody else is going to do it for me. I'm the one and I'm going to persevere and persist. And in stories like that, I just think, absolutely.
Darius Norell
I love it. It's amazing to hear and where my mind goes, this is being pedantic. And this is when I hear that no one else is going to do it for me. They might, right? Yes, yes. And is that what I want to rely on? Or wait for? Or have the rest of my life be about? Maybe somebody will do some, you know, so anyway, just there's just a fine, a fine refinement, if I can put it that way of does it this is amazing place I can step into where I can take, as you say ownership responsibility and do stuff and it's transformative. And yeah, just
Charlie Welch
That's the other thing that I really appreciate about your thinking, always Darius is your clarity. So let's just work out what this really means. Does it really mean? No one's gonna take responsibility no, actually, is that what I want is a far better question. Thank you.
Darius Norell
Anything else we haven't talked about that that would be useful as we're coming to the close, but anything you want to say or ask?
Charlie Welch
I think it's just coming back to the brilliance really it's coming back to that what I call native genius. What makes your eyes light up? Are you really clear about that? And what makes your eyes glaze over? And why? Because it's an understanding of both simultaneously. What am I drawn to? And what am I not drawn to? And, you know, if we get into the granularity of an interview situation, it's being able to share that brilliance, and also ask the right questions to ensure that you're not in a position where, where you're ending up doing the stuff that makes your eyes glaze over. For a long time, it's you getting really clear about what that role might potentially consist of, I like to think about it almost as a jigsaw puzzle piece. Here, the employer has a puzzle, and they have a missing shaped piece, and how clear are you about the size and the scale and what your piece looks like? And how clear are you about exactly what their missing piece looks like? Because if you can match those two up early, you're on a win win, you're going to you're far more likely to have your CV or your application goes through for selection to get the interview, to be able to speak authentically at interview to what they're looking for and to be ultimately able to make your contribution to the world. So yes, that's all I think I have to say.
Darius Norell
I love that. You know you isn't the kind of the language of lighting up and we talked about brilliance and it's kind of like the shining is the sort of you know, it's all the same there's also the law of light going on kind of like brilliance. And yeah, exactly what you said as is no which is at the core of what our framework is talking about brilliance knowing what it is being able to articulate it and and just how available even though it's work you know, just just any of us at anytime can just be noticing, Oh, am I my eyes lighting up in this moment? Or are they glazing over? Okay, well that's that's signal right I can pay attention to that and then go Okay, so there's more of this please and less of that because the more I'm in situations where my I'm naturally coming to life and shining that's going to naturally lead to a more positive environment results and and so I think that's a really clear and the picture I had when you were talking about the puzzle, which I also have used, that kind of really talked about fit like here's who I am, what do you need? And how well does this fit? This becomes a very easy conversation, then I can don't have to take it personally, if I get if I find out, there's not a fit, of course, why would I want to be there? And why would you want me? No, I wouldn't hire me. So just becomes very easy. And I sort of moved by your kind of eyes lighting up and energy. And I was wondering about, I haven't quite got it. But imagine you're a plug or something. But you've got lots of energy coming out of you that can connect into something. And maybe they've only got two holes which fit with two of yours, but you've got 10 which aren't being used, well, then that's not going to be a great fit for your what you've got to offer. So just using a fraction of you and then then only getting a fraction of you. So it just kind of just that as a flow of energy. Anyway. It's a simple similar concept, but it's it was came to mind as you were as you were talking. Thank you for taking the time today.
Charlie Welch
It's my pleasure entirely Darius, thank you very much for inviting me on to the podcast. Wonderful.
Darius Norell
Wonderful. Okay, that wraps up this episode of What's your work? Please do look at the show notes. Got lots of links to come that I think you'll find really useful and inspiring. And once again, thank you to Charlie for taking the time today. Until next time. Bye.
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