#17. Living Your Mission - Zeeger Scholten
“It's such a gift that I've cultivated, received everything, that it's just very clear I want to share that with others”
Zeeger Scholten, founder of INJOY, joins the podcast to share his mission: to support people expanding consciousness and raising their quality of life. In the conversation he and Darius define consciousness, as well as taking a mindful quiet moment to check in on it. Zeeger also shares the story behind his recent viral story, as well as discussing the relationship between surrendering to what is and creating what will be. What does it mean to have a mission? How can we live that practically every day?
Listen to full episode :
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Zeeger Scholten is the founder of INJOY, which works to connect teams and support well-being, development, and engagement of each member of your team. You can connect with him on LinkedIn @Zeeger Scholten.
Want to connect with your own vision? We’ve written about that - read here.
Audio mix and edit by Hula & Co Music.
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Darius Norell
So in this episode, we get deep into intent and purpose and how we create in the world, whether or how, what happens when we're connecting to deep intent and trusting everything's going to get taken care of, and then we find that maybe things don't quite work out that way. And what happens and this balance between surrendering, allowing, versus this kind of, right, I'm gonna take action on this or make this happen. So I think it's a pretty interesting conversation. I hope you find it interesting too.
Yeah, maybe we should start by singing a song with my guests. And then that will be nice.
Zeeger Scholten
We can do that.
Darius Norell
Yeah, well, you - actually you I saw your little video of you doing a little dance and so
Zeeger Scholten
right. Yeah. Maybe we can start this one with just two. We can make it if we try just the two of us. You and I.
Darius Norell
I don't know, I don't know the words. So there we go. That might that might make it in! Welcome Zeeger, lovely to have you on as a guest today. Already getting a sense of the kind of some of the lightness that I experience with you. The joy, fun, and also depth and sincerity of inquiry. I don't know if that's quite right, but just yeah, someone who's showing up as themselves as best they can. Yeah, that's my that's what I've got for you as a starter. How does that fit?
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah. works well for me. Just on an energy description.
Darius Norell
Great. What else would be good for people to know about you who are listening?
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah, I think there's a lot of different things to tell. But what's currently happening in my life, which always feels the most relevant is that just six months ago, I started a new company, which is called Injoy. And we're organizing trainings for companies and for individuals. In, in mostly connecting teams, that's the main thing. But personally, at this moment in time, yeah, it's been also a challenge. Like, it's been a challenge. I've started a company before. And it's also a challenge, kind of seeing, okay, what are we doing? And where's the energy coming from? And where is it going?
Darius Norell
Well, that's one of the one of the things that I love about the world of work or world of business is that we get to see, in reality, like how our ideas work, or don't work on ideas, I don't mean just mean business idea, like our ideas of the world of how to be, of, you know, the philosophy that we have, it makes contact with reality, right? And we can see here, does that lead to certain results? Or does it not lead to certain results? And so, I find it really rich as a field, rather than staying in some fantasy of like, oh, well look at you know, if I wanted to this is gonna be okay. It's okay. Well, we get to find out. Yeah, but it's a little bit like being in a family also, like, you get to find out like your ideas of like, Oh, I'm this kind of person. And if you've got kids around you, or whatever else is like, oh, maybe I'm not such a nice person. after all. There's areas of work to do. So. Yeah. The title of this podcast is, what's your work? And we'll go into both that kind of what's your work in the world? So I'd love to hear a description of that. And then love to also hear what are you seeing that's come up already in the last six months that you're like, oh, yeah, this is something for me to work on or get more or so. The sum of the first one what how would you describe what your work in the world is?
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah. Well on a on a on a deeper level, I know my mission, and I feel clarity on that. And that really has to do with even though it sounds so damn cheesy, like expanding consciousness and that's that. Just a mission that I've been on for a much longer time. And it just feels super clear, because it's really, I've seen the process of getting to know myself and expanding my own consciousness and expanding my own ability to relate and connect to the world and to people around me. It's such a gift that I've cultivated, received everything, that it's just very clear that that I want to share that with others and see how I, how I can help others cultivate that, so that their quality of life really goes up. So that's, that's my work. And that's how it comes back in my work. And every day. And then there's different forms that that takes, but every time it's just exploring, okay, what's the best form that this has, at this moment in time? For me to kind of live this vision.
Darius Norell
Lovely. And I know that words can be you know, like, we're using words to describe things which really go beyond words. So it can be unsatisfying or unsatisfactory trying to put words on it. Nonetheless, let's have a go. So how would you define consciousness? Not trying to come up with a perfect definition, but just sort of working for people listening? Like what? What's your definition of consciousness?
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah, I don't have a very good definition. To be honest. The, I think the best definition I could give to it is, is kind of the awareness behind your thoughts, emotions, and your experience reality. So it's kind of like, like, you have your thoughts, and you have your emotions. But then there is something behind that, that also notices that you have thoughts and emotions and are experiencing this reality. And it's, in essence, making connection with that space, or the space that holds it all. And, yeah, I feel like you can expand that space, that that holds all those things. Yeah. And in that way, also feel connected to the bigger space that holds kind of all of creation, and therefore feel very interconnected with others and with the world and with everyday life.
Darius Norell
Yeah. Sounds pretty good to me.
Zeeger Scholten
How would you define it?
Darius Norell
Yeah, I mean, I'd love to answer that question. And the description that you've used, you know, feels lovely, wonderful. And maybe, you know, people will hear that in their own way. But like, as I'm listening to, that sounds like a really great way of pointing to, or even experience a little bit I yeah, there's just there's this space. And there's the kind of being in everything and thoughts and feelings. And then there's a kind of an awareness of that, and the space in which that's held, and the space in which everything is held that can expand and that's a, you know, does that sound like an accurate playback? And yes, yeah, it's a beautiful way. Yeah, I my definition, or how I would define it is I'm gonna go a very different approach and description, right? It's not there's not disagreeing with what you said at all, because I love that dimension of it. But my, going to use someone else's, which I also like, which is, so my late one is being interested. So you started being aware and interested in of the consequences of your actions? Right, that's, that's the that's the kind of, it's a very practical, tangible kind of field of consciousness of like, okay, yeah. Am I aware of the impact of my choices, actions? And am I interested, am I okay, so what does that leave me? What does that mean? What does that lead to? So that's a very action, field oriented version and a more sophisticated version of that, which I got from Peter Sangay. And his work was, because, this is what I think he was describing, what is this work that we're doing with leaders? And he described it as supporting leaders and getting more accurate, insightful, and empowering views about reality. Which isn't, as I hear myself say that, that isn't, that doesn't really fit with consciousness. But in that, in this work, like that's that, you know, again, it's a very practical piece, but just kind of, there's a way that the world is, and there's a way that we see it, right. So part of the job is not recognizing there's a difference and then getting more accurate about it. Right. So you could say, that's way more conscious. Yeah. And then becoming more insightful is all now that I'm getting more accurate views, like I'm making connections that I wasn't before, like, oh, that's why that's happening. Right? So we get insight like, so again, we could call that expanding consciousness. And then the empowering is, here's a whole different way to see this, like this person that was I was holding as an enemy and doing all this to me, and now seeing like, oh, wow, I could come to this in a whole different way. That creates a whole different possibility. So that's the empowering bit. So maybe, maybe that is to do with consciousness. But that's yeah, that's my, you can hit both of those are quite practical and quite gritty. Kind of.
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah, like that. I like the practical side of it.
Darius Norell
Yeah. It's a way of grounding it. Otherwise, sometimes these conversations can end up - and I loved your definition, I think I think it's really lovely - and it can can feel a little bit intangible or like, well, I don't have an experience of that space. What are you talking about? You know, and then yeah, and then it's like, well, how do I relate? Whereas they're very grounded ways, I hope is accessible, and meaningful and immediately practical, practicable? Yeah. To anyone?
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah. Yeah, that's really good. And it helps give yourself direction as well. Because I knew if also my definition of consciousness, I've definitely gone through moments of life where I'm like, What am I actually doing? Like? What? Like, I have, like, trying to become aware of myself? For what reason? And to what extent and where's this going? Like, what are we becoming aware of? For what, and just getting lost in just the process of trying to gain more consciousness or awareness without there kind of being a direction to it as well?
Darius Norell
Yeah, I think it's definitely been there and still get there. And yeah, so having another way to be able to access it, which is grounded in Okay, well, am I getting more accurate? Or is this is my insight, Grace? Yeah. More, can be more accessible. Not Not The Only Way and definitely not the limit of where I can also doesn't doesn't have the what doesn't immediately speak to the enormous, almost infinite space that you're talking about that all all could be held in? And I think it can come from that, right? Because that can be one of the insights like as I get more accurate with like, oh, well, we're really connected. And that connection is deep and and then suddenly, it's like, oh, yeah, there is something bigger and that is there and how I'm seeing myself, you know, it's kind of a key part right of it, we can go go into a much more esoteric kind of description and views of it. So I stepped away from having to take care of my phone, which I'd left on and come back and taking a breath and say is taking a breath and what are you noticing coming up as you do that? Anything?
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of like feel playing with also, just not knowing the format of this conversation. And, and then just playing with the letting it go, and the being in it as well and being part of it. So it's like, not stepping into facilitating role but being being an active co creator of it. And at the same time surrendering to what wants to be happening here.
Darius Norell
Thank you for trusting the process of I don't know if that's quite right, but yeah. Showing up in that way. One of the things that became a spark for even doing this podcast for me was reading a post that you'd written about you setting up the business, and taking on this kind of lease or rental of this property. And I thought it was such a, I thought was brilliant, we'll put it in the show notes, people can can read it. And I thought it was a brilliant example of how in the act of doing, we get to see views and thoughts and ideas we had about ourselves that show up in ways that's like, oh, that didn't quite fit with what I thought or that's expanded my learning, right? Which to me is the whole point of doing this work is we get to see parts of ourselves as a starting point of doing work, is we get to see ourselves and see parts of ourselves that we didn't before and so on. So I don't know if you want to do a little recap of that, or kind of just, yeah, I'd love to hear, because I thought it was so rich. And I really couldn't resonate it it for myself when I was starting my business kind of many years ago. So yeah, if you feel to speak to that, I'd love to hear maybe so a little bit of background on kind of what what came up.
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah, I mean, the story. The story goes that in starting this company, we had absolutely no idea about what we're going to do. So we experienced kind of this energy together with a few friends at a festival that we had co created. And it was such a deep sense of joy and connection, and belonging, and a real kind of, you know, when a little door to another reality opens for a second, and you're just like, oh, this is possible. Oh, I never even considered the possibility of this. And so that little door open of like, wow, could you do your work? Could work be this place of, of real deep joy and real deep connection? And yeah, real deep kind of co creation and belonging. And so we started the company kind of from this idea of, okay, there's this energy that we we experienced. But we don't have any concrete idea. And after kind of the first meeting that we had, we decided, Okay, we just need to get an office space. We need to get this place, and then we'll start building up the energy there. So we signed an office lease for a year. And just everyday showed up there and looked at okay, what, what, what wants to be created? What ideas come up? How can we put forum to this energy that we've experienced? And how can we create a forum also that we can share with others? Yeah, so that happened at the start of our business, and then the article that I wrote was much more also about Yeah, just the, the challenges. So having been a few months in, and having had the office space become more of a financial burden than kind of reflecting on the process of okay, what's happened here, you know, there's, there's this beautiful side of trusting life and, and CO creating with others and, and just jumping into that with full trust. But there's this other side of like, okay, what, what is what is real? What is, you know, how is our money situation at this moment in time? And how does that reflect on kind of my leadership capacity also to hold? I guess, a duality of like, trusting and just going and staying real and connected, you know, so it's like, opening up to possibilities like an office space, but at the same time, staying grounded and connected and real with the experience that is happening in front of me and not kind of coming into this idealistic hippie world that I like to create for myself sometimes where we just sit in circles and drum and cocreate the most beautiful paradise.
Darius Norell
So we're so where are you, like if if you if you if one end of the spectrum, this isn't, this isn't, it's not an either or, but if one end of the spectrum is okay, I just, I'm trusting the universal provider, if I just stay connected to this energy and honor that, like, everything's gonna get taken care of like that. And then the other is a. And this is really artificial, but it's a little bit more kind of, many of us maybe fear based, but kind of like, okay, look, we've got this amount of money, and we've got to be able to, we've got to really sensible and logical and that just, you know, so where were you ended up? And so it's really an artificial construct. Just just to play with it a bit, kind of what, where are you now in terms of Yeah.
Zeeger Scholten
I mean, a very, like, real confronted place right now. Like, I literally talked to our landlord yesterday, considering, like, talking with him about ending the lease, possibly. So I'm in a real like, hello, reality, hello, kind of money situation, hello, you know, maybe an offer a huge office space is not a good investment at this moment in time for where we are. But there, and I think, you know, that there's also kind of the beautiful insight, and that's also where the two concepts, I think, come together. You know, I think the trusting doesn't lie only in the imagining, and then just doing and then living in a fairy tale, the trusting actually lies more in the, in the sometimes harsh lesson that is served to you because of your confrontation with reality. And so I see myself stepping into that now. It's more like, okay, oh, great. You know, there was actually this. There, there was there wasn't in there as was important learnings from this. And it is like me, playing together with reality. And, and trusting it and also trusting it will kind of serve me my lesson and my my destiny in good time. And so I'm stepping a bit into that. But yesterday, I mean, yesterday, I felt that's how I'm feeling today. Yesterday, I felt demotivated now. And after having a conversation with Elise, I felt sad. And I was like, Oh, I have to let go and mourning, you know, like one chapter ending, which is going to end up having one new chapter open. But today, um, I'm experiencing a lot of trust, and a lot of up perfect, you know, this was supposed to happen.
Darius Norell
Yeah. But what's exciting for me listening is that, you know, if you can get the learning, which potentially feels big in what you're talking about, right? It's like, I think, I think there's a, it's big, and maybe, maybe, maybe there's more experience to have to get to be able to get the learning. But as I see it, like it took me 15 years, maybe, I mean, maybe 15 years to get it. What I you know, the learning that I think is in what you're experiencing, because I was I was so deeply committed to look, if I just stay true to the intent and if that sounds really good, and for the well being of everyone. It's it, you know, that's an I'm serving everyone and I'm being you know, acting with integrity, everything's going to go okay. And that wasn't the whole picture. Like there was there's lots of learning lots of different types of learning for me to get. And it wasn't. And once I got an insight, it really shifted things. But it was a it was a I was very wedded to an ideal. That was an accurate night we'll come back to that wasn't accurate to reality, like I was trying to impose my own version of reality. Like, well, I'm, you know, I can do it this way. And that it wasn't it wasn't accurate, but it took me 15 years of do I let go of it? If that makes sense.
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah. Can you tell us a bit more? I mean, that sounds very rich to me. Like can you tell us a bit more about that, what that idea was?
Darius Norell
I mean, I guess let me go to one which was huge and really specific, which was, I wanted to create great outcomes for everyone that I was in contact with, right, whether it was clients or people, you know, people if they learn to work with young people who for jobs. So, like I wanted everyone to do well, and it's okay, if everyone does well, then I've created lots of value and out of that value, I will get paid, I'll get received, like, it'd be plenty to share that we just focus on creating. And I'll be able to take care of myself out of what's left. So that was the idea, right, and I was sort of actively not in that picture of abundance for everyone, right, everyone else was in that picture of like, do really well. And so I'll have what's left, like, if there's something left, I don't want to take more than my fair share as well. And just in my picture wasn't a clear articulation or recognition, like I need money too, like that was true. But I didn't want to admit it, as ridiculous as it sounds like I didn't want to, I didn't want to say, Oh, I'll be, I don't need much, I don't need anything, I'll be you know, just whatever's left, like just pretending that I didn't need anything. And it turned out I did. The way I was living was not consistent. I mean, there are ways to live where you where you can need nothing or need very, very little like, that wasn't consistent with how I was living. And, you know, living in our house that I owned, or having a family like, that's not consistent with having no needs. And even they didn't even that I'm still not putting myself in the picture like of the house and other people like, and me like I need stuff, like the way I'm living, I need things. So it was a huge, that was a huge shift to really get, oh, that view that I had, and that I was unwilling to put in the picture or recognize about myself had a massive impact on what got created. Surprise, and what I received. And guess what I always received. I said just about enough, maybe just little less than enough. But it was always on that edge. I wasn't in an abundant place at that point, in terms of what I was receiving, the quality of the work was amazing as lots of things were amazing, but that that the money wasn't flowing. And yeah, so that was that was a that was one was other bits. But that was that was kind of really at the heart that I saw. And when I shifted that view, everything changed a lot quickly.
Zeeger Scholten
What did that what did that practically mean for your life? When when that view shifted? Or how did you?
Darius Norell
I mean, two things. I mean, I don't want to combine too many different things at the same time, but my income substantially increased. Let's just put it that way. And I would say the quality of work actually went up at the same time as well. Right. So the kind of just getting really clear and, and yeah, saying okay, I'm open, I'm open for business, this is the standard of work, I want to do this to the quality of work I want to do and I'm committed to. And at the moment, I am focused on people who are who are most able both to appreciate get benefit from and pay for it at full value. Right. So that's a subset of all the people that could benefit at the moment. I'm just looking at that. Like, that's, that's what I'm focused on, because I need to take care of myself and my situation. And that and that. For me. That was the that was the piece that was I'm not saying it's the same for you. But your that was a piece that was yeah, not complete in my picture. Not so much. That was a key piece that was missing. That was showing up.
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah, no, I'm, I'm right in there. I'm right in there. Like in the, like the feeling of, they're right before that, you know, and I know, I've been keeping myself out of that picture as well.
Darius Norell
And I think maybe that's that's maybe a common misunderstanding with people that are really committed to expanding consciousness and doing good in the world. It's like, it's easy to maybe not be in the picture. And yeah, at least for me, I found that because I just had to give up, just like, accept, okay, like, I've tried everything I can to not have be in the picture and like, I don't know, like if there is a way to do it. I don't know. I just except I don't know that. Like what I do know is that I do have needs, they're not getting met and they need to be real and accurate about that.
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah. And it's beautiful. I really liked the idea of bringing it into the picture as well, it feels very like the seeing the realness of the situation and the whole picture, you know, and it doesn't, it doesn't even say, and therefore you need to do this, and therefore you need to do that. But it says, Hey, recognize what you haven't been wanting to recognize and make it more of the picture. And then actions will follow. Rather than you should be now you have to be paying yourself a lot. It doesn't have to be the consequence. But it can be just like, oh, yeah, you do have needs. And that is part of it.
Darius Norell
Yeah. And then might be might have been many different ways that they got taken care of right, or like that, that got situation got as a result, but yeah, met. So So and one of which happened to be in my case, okay. Yeah, significant increase in the money flows. Maybe there could have been 100 100 different ways of maybe someone else starts doing something, or maybe, you know, someone gives me a house or I don't know, I don't wanna make stuff up. But-
Zeeger Scholten
I wanted to say, if anyone's listening, and you want to give Darius a house, please do that.
Darius Norell
Well, what about you?
Zeeger Scholten
Okay, fine.
Darius Norell
Well, make the ask!
Zeeger Scholten
Okay. My ask is, if anyone is running a company or a team, at this moment in time, and needs, wants to create more connection between their team and organization? Yeah, if they could reach out to me. And my ask is to get clients right now. That's the ask.
Darius Norell
And so what's the what's the bigger ask? Like, what's the, that's a very, that's a very good one. So great. And what's the big one? Like, what's the picture for you that you want?
Zeeger Scholten
The bigger ask is, for myself then at least, is being able to run our organization, which which has four people in it and, and the purpose of our organization, and the bigger ask is getting money for our organization and for us, and the bigger ask is actually just being in the field and doing this work. Like for me I feel like so in between right now because I love working with people and being there with the people working you know, doing this kind of work and right now I'm like, Yeah, I mean, I'm in the process of doing sales and this kind of thing and it's part of it, but I love being in the field. And I so that's that's also a big part of my ask is just being in the field.
Darius Norell
So can I play it back for you? I mean, just the language of which is so, how does this fit? So I want to get taken care of I want to get taken care of in such a way that I can spend as much time as possible doing doing this amazing work with my team How does that - ?
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah, I love that
Darius Norell
Because that again, that just creates the openness right? There may be many ways for that to happen, right? One of those clients are lovely and maybe there's a benefactor maybe there's this, maybe there's right who knows?
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah.
Darius Norell
Anything else you want to ask me?
Zeeger Scholten
As in an ask? In a question?
Darius Norell
Go wherever you want to go with it. I wasn't thinking you could ask of me but I love that you went there.
Zeeger Scholten
I mean, a question that is coming up in my mind right now, which I'm just actively exploring. Which is more meta question actually and it's, I know, it's not one or the other, but this world of like, I have desires and by speaking them, and by being with them, I manifest them. And this world of like, I am here to surrender to and accept just what is and will flow with what is, what has come up, you know, so one is like a more like active approach to future creation. And another is like a more surrendered approach to just what is and then just flowing with that. And I noticed, I haven't been able to integrate them fully. I noticed that, like, I feel I either need to be in one zone or the other. And I kind of like switch in between, okay, actively imagining my future, and making it happen through even just setting my energy at that. And then another one is just like, oh, being with Oh, something has come up, I will serve that, this thing that has come up in this present moment. So it's like, yeah, I didn't know if anything comes up for you on that question, because that's, that's a really big question playing in my life right now.
Darius Norell
Yeah, I think it's a fantastic question, or an inquiry, and I definitely don't have a kind of Oh, great. Like, here's the answer. And I, you know, I noticed even as you're coming for people listening, you couldn't see Zeeger's hands. Your hands were quite separate. I know, there's gonna be artificial, but like, even that, like, how do those connect? Right that world of being and surrender, and then being in the world, kind of taking action? And so I think, I could share some stuff I get, I'm not sure how useful it is. Just from a maybe, just some ways I'm holding it, but I'm definitely not claiming that they're even. Like, I mean, I could share some ways I'm holding it, I guess, maybe, and then see what you think. So you can think of deep intent, right? So like this idea of okay, what am I really, what is the deepest intention I have? Right? So letting go of the form of it, just kind of, really, what is it that's most drawing me? Energizing, important? What is it? And in that intent is also a picture of impact? I think there's a kind of, if you want to be in simplicity, well intentioned to serve people. Okay, great. And then, and then allowing a picture to emerge of what does that look like? Because there's many, many ways I might just be consciously what exactly said but having some picture of what do you what are you seeing happening? Right? So that's an allowing surrendering, I'm going to claim that's an allowing surrendering piece so, there is a container, which has an intention, and then a picture may emerge, right, which we can go, like, I'm noticing that now. In a way, that's a lot of where our work is that we can't see. Because in that picture, we don't even know, Oh, that looks like a nice picture that was like, took me 15 years to really acknowledge that I'm not in it. And that's, that's a problem. Right? So that's, that for me, that's, that's a way of connecting to the surrendering part, which is noticing, inside what's what's there to emerge come out that I'm drawn to, and not that it's fixed, but it's kind of if you do that work at some depth, you just take a moment and some breaths and really, you know, play with it over time, I think, you know, a picture can emerge that's got a degree of yeah, this is in clear enough that I can head towards it. And then some action. And again, we might be curious about Okay, so what would really be in service of that, like in terms of taking action, like what's going to really take me towards that and that and that phase, we can then get into a bit more of the worldly. Alright, and then take some action. I'm gonna call this person I'm gonna get some more of the doing that said. I noticed that when I am at my most clear and in touch and connected It seems to act as an amazing attractor, like very quickly. stuff seems to come towards it. And I haven't I haven't actually done anything. And I remember a project I was doing, probably fifteen years ago, oh my goodness, probably something like that. And it was a new learning initiative I'd wanted to set up. I see that like, it was like a new university. That was my idea, kind of like, okay, and I thought, Okay, well, I'm not gonna do it. Not quite exactly how I framed it was in my head. Okay, well, there's five or six people in the world. I thought, Okay, well, if they're on board, then I would do it. And I didn't know any of these people that was just like the kind of leading figures in different fields. I was like, Okay, if I can have them on board, I'll do it. And within six months, I'd met all of them. Right? Someone literally someone invited me to lunch that I knew. It'd be nice to go out for lunch like, and then I was like, Oh, well, why don't you come on this day? There's this guy I'm having lunch with I think you you know, I think you might connect with you. It'd be really interesting. Are you kidding me? Like there was one there was one. It was like, speaking at an event. And the person before me was like, Oh, my gosh, that's you like, okay, that's number two, like, so it's just like, it's very weird set of coincidences happened. That. Like, if I tried, I imagined, like, if I really tried to get in contact with those people, like, Hey, it's me. I've got no right track record. Can we have some time? Like it would have just gone? Not, you know, just know. The action is futile, anyway, right. Could be that maybe taking us back to this hippie idea of like, oh, great, I'll just have this idea. And I'll just sit here and wait for the daughter. That's just what I did. You know, that was what I pretended to do when I left university, which is people say, and I've done all sorts of stuff at University of that small world, it was sort of I done some stuff, I was at university, let's just put it that way to be like, Oh, what are you going to do when you leave? I wasn't really doing and I graduated, but what are you gonna do? And I just, I'd sort of given up a little bit at that point, I just didn't, I didn't really know. And I thought, I've got to say something to sound like cool or interesting, or like, I've got it all figured out. So I said, Oh, well, you know, people know what I've done. I'm just waiting for the phone to ring, like people with just like a ridiculously lovely, maybe arrogant view of life. But it was really from a place of like, I don't know, like, What am I, you know, I applied for a couple of things. And I hadn't got the job, thank goodness. And then I thought about starting my own business, I thought, well, maybe I'll start my own business, legalese, that that'll be an answer to. And I actually didn't have enough impulse to do that. So I was kind of just on the cusp of that. And then as it happened, the phone did ring. And someone called me up and said, Oh, we'd be interested in having a conversation, which was an opening to an amazing job and opportunity and boss and our bosses just like yeah, just opened my whole world up in terms of what came from that. And so just to really reiterate, I'm not advocating, meditating, and just going oh, great. So you all say that universal just take care of me if I just get you know, just get clear enough, right? That's not you know, there's plenty of action I had to taken. And there was a lot of active intense. So anyway, that feels a bit rambling, but love to hear what sense are you making of all of that?
Zeeger Scholten
I love it. I think the thing that resonated, most from what you shared was the deep intent. Piece of like, going back to okay, what's what's really the intent here? Yeah, that that resonates a lot. And kind of also just letting the picture emerge. As you're in the, in the doing the work, you know, I feel like a lot of the confusion happens. The moment I don't actually know why I'm doing the things I'm doing. Yeah. So like staying connected with that. Is, is really valuable.
Darius Norell
I think the other thing I want to say and again, it's a little bit nuanced, because it can get heard the wrong way. But I feel like it's an important that sometimes when we're connecting with that deep intent, right, like, in a heart and just got an opening and then at some point, many of us have a voice which is like, oh, no, no, that's too big or like, I'll pull back like I'll play a bit small like that's safer or that's okay, why shouldn't be so out You know, whatever. And I think there's something really important and in my the intense, not yours, right? That's not your intent. The intent is beyond you. Like, that's how I'd hold it so and you're connecting to it great. Well, that's an intense infinite like to certain just to connect to the much bigger possibility of what you know, what, what can become possible what's in the picture. So if I was to play that out, like for you, you know, you talked about the ask is, hey, if there's someone listening, who's got a team, and you know, want to build connection, I'm over here, I can't, you know, come towards me, I'd love to that type of conversation. Great. And in a way, that's a small picture. Now, that may be there's nothing wrong with a small picture, by the way, if that's the picture, like great, like, this does not. And this is where it could get misheard, like, our biggest bet I just need to go bigger, bigger, no. And like to really check in, like, is there a bigger picture is there something which is, and this is, you know, which I'm, I'm going to make it up like, Hey, if you're listening, and you've got a, an organization with 1000s of people, and you want all of them to be connecting up. Like, I'd love to do a piece of work across multiple teams that can really show like what the potential of this is, like, I don't know I'm making stuff up, but to have in the picture, the thing that would be like, this would be the most amazing thing doesn't mean that's where I'm going to start there is the only thing but it's like, that's a by the way, this is what we're up to. I want to build more connection in the world. And that's going to be a good thing. And at the moment, I'm focused on doing it in the workplace. If that's interesting to you, like I want to I want to find a way to do that with you. At at scale if that's in there, but just to kind of does that does that connect at all?
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah, it does. Yeah, I mean, it also really connects to the process I'm in currently actually, which is a bit of a revisioning of also because letting probably go of the office space, maybe one team members leaving so there's also a process of revisioning right now of what is the bigger picture which is very nice to connect with like and reminds me to take a bit more time to connect with that again, because I you know, it's like you can notice getting in kind of the everyday rut of just being like okay, yep, my next action next action like doing your to do list getting your to do list done.
Darius Norell
I'm sensing into now complete this conversation feels like a we we cover it as it were like a week complete. How are you feeling?
Zeeger Scholten
I mean, I feel I feel there's things in motion inside of me. But they feel like they're more part of outside of this call than then then they're they're part of this call does that make a complete? I'm not 100% Sure. I think I I think so. But I I can't say yeah, I I cannot say Uh, yes, it's complete. So
Darius Norell
maybe it's a complete enough. Kind of
Zeeger Scholten
Maybe it's a complete enough. Yeah.
Darius Norell
Enough for now. Maybe. Yeah. And I'm also a little bit in that space of like, Oh, it doesn't feel like a really clear sense of Yeah. And then it doesn't also feel like oh my gosh, oh, yeah. There's something else to go towards. Yeah. Interesting.
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah. It doesn't feel completely round. And I didn't If I didn't know when I, I do know when I feel that in a conversation, you know, when you feel like oh yeah.
Darius Norell
So why don't we let's try this why don't we try sort of try checking out and then maybe something will emerge in the checkout that's like, oh, yeah, there is something else, although on the checkout maybe the piece that's, you know, that's there. So I asked a couple of questions and then you can you can see how have you found the conversation
Zeeger Scholten
Inspiring. I really enjoy your style of conversation of like, reflecting back. So that's a really nice style that that helps also give a lot of reflection back I notice I notice like a slight quality inside of me, which is has something to do with like, getting getting remembered of something, but also the process of, or at least the still process going of feeling the pain of forgetting kind of so I think maybe that's also a bit of my maybe not complete feeling of roundness, there's a slight there's a little judgment there of forgetting something that you just remembered, you know? Yes, I can feel I can feel like a bit of pain in that in my body, just the feeling of like oh, Zika, you could have done better. You forgot this again, you know, kind of like that. But so that's, that's, that's how I'm currently feeling.
Darius Norell
As you were speaking a question, like a question came up in my, my head was like, oh, maybe that's it. Like, which is funny enough is it comes back to that point, when I said, Oh, is there anything else you want to ask me? Like, as you ask, you know, and I say, oh, which is if there was one thing that I could do to support you? What would it be?
Zeeger Scholten
I really enjoy learning from your facilitation style. So I guess creating an opportunity to work together on something, even if it's small, would be a valuable kind of learning opportunity. happen to have an opportunity with conscious leadership guilt, but I'm not going to completely go into it now. Because it's not relevant for anyone listening. But yeah. I think something like that. I mean, I and another idea comes up of like, I you would actually also be a valuable coach to me, you know, so like, it's like that that could also, I mean, just the few short conversations we've had just the reflections I've gotten from that have been valuable and quite to the point. And I'm, I'm in that place where I really want to get to the point and I need people to help me get to the point to the realness of it. You know, it's there's no not trying to make it nicer than it is. I like just The realness. That's where I want to get in. I can sense that in you.
Darius Norell
Yeah. Great. Well, it sounds like a couple of things to pick up. Yeah. Outside of the podcast anything else to say to be complete? How's it
Zeeger Scholten
Yeah, it feels complete-er. Not completed, but complete-er.
Darius Norell
For you. Yeah. Similarly, I, I'm, I'm feeling like I was a nice step and not going to chase it but also not not got that sense, which you talked about. It's really clear when it happens. And it's clear for me of like, oh, yeah, we got that. That's not even the right expression. But yeah, being completed. So. And I'm also happy. Like, it's not, it's not burning, so I'm happy. And I'm got inspired or, you know, got inspired from this conversation to love listening to you love your attention and energy and your being. And I mean, it's gonna sound funny when you said, I love learning. You said, You love learning from my facilitation style, and the thought that came up was hit me too. Like I never quite know, like, I'm sort of almost observing it. As much as it's happening. It's kind of for me sometimes has a bit of an otherworldly quality of like, oh, I never quite know what's going to come.
Yeah. Well, wonderful. Okay, on that note, I'm gonna say big thank you. And yes, yeah, continue the conversation.
Zeeger Scholten
Yes, thank you, anyone listening.
Darius Norell
Thanks so much so if you've listened this far, you heard us spending quite a bit of time completing that conversation or trying to get complete about being complete. Hopefully you're feeling complete. Having listened to that. I love this whole topic of manifesting in the world connecting to something that's important, purposeful for the good of the world. And what does that mean for me? How do I see myself in that picture? What does that when I get into action? When do I get into just allowing what's the role of attracting things so just all of that I think so rich? And so yeah, maybe a chance for you to reflect on what is important to you. What do you have a deep intent? What is the biggest most rich version of that picture? And doesn't maybe let go big and just richest version like oh my gosh, you have that was happening that would be amazing. Just speaks deeply to you and just not just amazing for you but amazing for all the people in the picture or people in the world universe beings how we want to go just invite you to look at that for yourself. Until the next one.
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